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Leadership is important today
for many reasons

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probably the most
fundamental of which is

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that we live in a time of
many crises of complex problems

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We need people to solve
those complex problems

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to deal with those crises
to begin to change the way

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we operate in this world

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My experience has been that
the world is looking for someone

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who's going to help find solutions

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There are a lot of challenges

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that are happening across the world

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with AIDS and famine

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and all different issues going
on from a business level as well

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From the very beginning I've said
that MIT has a special opportunity

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and a special responsibility
to provide leadership in a society

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which is becoming increasingly technical

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MIT students see a problem and they
work together in groups collaboratively

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as teammates to solve that problem

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They bring from different backgrounds

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different experiences and

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that's really what-
that's the type of leadership

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that's the type of leader MIT's developing

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I think MIT has to be
the place to develop these leaders

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that move their passion to action

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It's important what we're producing here
because research the people

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the ideas that are coming out of
here are very important

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but unless we can mobilize those ideas
how important are they?

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I think a leader should be somebody
who sees the possibility of a better future

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who then has the tools and the resources to
find a solution to get to that future

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You can exercise leadership at every level
of an activity or an organization

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every single level of an organization

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There are needs for leadership

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It's about those people in those groups
who really are passionate

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who push that organization forward

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who- who develop ideas

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who- who take the initiative
to make things happen

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That's what leadership's about

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It's not necessarily the person at the top

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the person who's the manager

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It's the person who-

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who has that vision
who has that passion

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who can harness the resources

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who can get people to believe in him and
work with him to make something happen

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I think in ten years it will not be-

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it won't be a nice to have
to be technically qualified

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it'll be an absolute necessity for anyone
to be a successful leader in this society

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whether it be in politics economics
business medicine or education

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they must have technical backgrounds

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they must have technical understanding

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they must understand the
ethical and moral issues

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that are interlaid in technology

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We have students that actually change
the way people think in their field

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I mean that's academic leadership

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We have students that are out in communities
changing the way communities look

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That's- that's leadership

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For instance the public
service center fellowship program

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that program sponsors upwards
of twenty to thirty students

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in IAP and in the summer to go off
and do projects that they design

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I've had friends who
for instance spent last summer

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in Sri Lanka helping
with the tsunami relief effort

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I've had friends who went back to
their home community in Wisconsin

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and helped to organize a soup kitchen

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I myself went back to my middle school

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and helped to-

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to leave my mark on the
middle school to give back

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to the teachers who gave so much to me

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We need people who have passion

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who can translate that passion
into effective action and change

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Because I think what
we have here at MIT

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is an excellent opportunity to move dedicated

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very focused and devoted people that
are passionate about their work

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into an arena
where they can effect change

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And everyone's arena to
effect change is different

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but MIT is special because it offers-

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beyond the sixteen courses-
it offers opportunities

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for students to move that into real action

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And how does it offer students
the opportunities to do that?

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Again it's through the support
through the graduate student office

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through perhaps the MIT center for leadership

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I think the leadership center can serve a-
a great great need by being a catalyst

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an intellectual center where the best ideas
in leadership can be brought home

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The leadership
center creates the theory

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and the tools and the curricula

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that are necessary to help people
to understand what leadership is

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and how they can be better leaders
and develop as leaders

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MIT has all the basic ingredients
that are needed to create

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the kinds of people who will go out
and make change in the world

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We have the technology

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we have the knowledge

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we have the theory

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we have the intellectual
capacity to think about

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the issues that are facing the world

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to think about the complexity that exists

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And we have the capacity to use that knowledge
in order to get people engaged in action

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No one else has that

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MIT has a responsibility
it has the duty to train leaders

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I mean who better than MIT

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where better than MIT-

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the place where miracles happen-
where we are going to cure cancer

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where we're going to figure out
how to address AIDS in the third world

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or hunger or the
impending energy crisis right now?

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Who better than MIT?
Where better than MIT?

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Applause for the video that was great

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Good morning and welcome to the
passion to action summit

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and the official launch of
the MIT Leadership Center

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As the screen indicates

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I'm Dick Schmalensee John C Head
the third dean of the Sloan school

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and I'm delighted you could
all be with us here today

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This is an exciting time for
all of us who take great pride

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in being members of the MIT community

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Today we're going to celebrate the lives

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and accomplishments of
the many MIT trained leaders

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who have made the world
a better place to live

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We will hear from an impressive group of

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MIT men and women who are having
a profound impact on

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how we live
how we learn and how we lead

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Some you may know well
others you have yet to meet

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And today we are also officially launching

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and beginning the critical mission
of the MIT Leadership Center

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The mission is to
create the theory tools

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and action oriented
curricula to enable leaders

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to tackle complex global challenges
and create positive social change

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When we decided to establish the
MIT Leadership Center this past year

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we had to confront an important question

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a question that's addressed by many

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of the folks who spoke in that video

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Why leadership at MIT?

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I want to argue that this is actually
not a very hard question at all

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If the global community
hopes to successfully harness

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the enormous potential of
new science and new technology

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we will need skillful
and passionate leaders

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who understand both that
potential and the associated risks

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As MIT president
Susan Hochfield has said

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"The world has never needed MIT
as much as it does now"

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And I'm quoting

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"With our expertise in
interdisciplinary problem solving

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MIT is uniquely equipped and
obliged to make a critical difference

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to do the analysis
to create the innovations

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to fuel the economy and to educate
the leaders the world needs now"

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After all effective leadership
can't exist in a vacuum

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If you're going to be a leader in business
you need to understand business

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If you're going to be a
leader in a technical domain

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you need to understand that technology

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If you're going to be a leader in politics
you have to understand how politics works

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To some extent leadership skills
are transferable across domains

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But even though any education worthy
of the name teaches you

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to learn and to think

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substantive knowledge
is less transferable

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MIT excels in giving people
substantive knowledge

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particularly in engineering
science and management-

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in areas that are going to transform
everything over the next century and beyond

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MIT has the ability to create to develop

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to shape uniquely effective leaders
by combining leadership skills

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and the kind of substantive knowledge

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that will be vital to understanding
key drivers of social

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and economic change
in the coming decades

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I believe we must be as deliberate

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and rigorous about
developing leadership skills

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as we are about teaching the disciplines of
science engineering and management

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Leadership skills are much too important
to leave their development to chance

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Thus the question with
which I began really isn't hard

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As one of the speakers on the video said

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"Where better than MIT to study teach

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develop and apply intelligent
skillful leadership to deal

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with society's most formidable
and complex challenges?"

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President Hochfield has said that

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she wants MIT to be
the dream of every child

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who wants to make
the world a better place

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We have the opportunity

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and I believe the responsibility
to ensure that women and men

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at MIT have the skills
and opportunities to do just that-

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to tackle complex global challenges
and create positive social change

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Thank you all very much for being with us
at MIT on this very special day

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Thank you for listening to me this morning

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It's my great pleasure now to
introduce Professor Deborah Ancona

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Faculty Director of the
MIT Leadership Center

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Deborah

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Thank you Dick

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I too would like to welcome you to
the passion to action summit

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We are honored to have you with us today

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as we formally launch
the MIT Leadership Center

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Many years ago

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when I was a junior faculty member
at another august academic institution

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I thought I was doing a pretty good job

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I was publishing papers in
the right kinds of journals

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I was teaching my classes
and I was on many

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many many committees
so I thought that all was well

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However one day a senior faculty
member came into my office to chat

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At that chat
he politely turned to me and said

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"Deborah I want you to know that
you're wearing nontenure track shoes"

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Well this made me think a bit

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I mean I'm a pretty conservative dresser

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The shoes were purple but
they weren't bright they weren't neon

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they weren't even open toed
but that was not the point

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The point was that
I had missed a critical cue about

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that organizational culture

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And it was that if you want to succeed
you better wear black shoes

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And then I came to MIT

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and I can assure you

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that success and leadership
are not about

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what you wear and
they're not about how you look

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They're about what you know
and what you can do

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And oh by the way

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leadership is all about understanding
the cultural context in

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which you operate as well

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This notion of leadership
is perhaps best described

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by John Velasco a graduate
student in political science

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He says "None of us likes to brag

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though a lot of people here
are doing some amazing things"

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He's right MIT leaders are amazing

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And by and large they are a humble lot

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But that's fine

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At MIT we measure leadership by impact

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not fame by deed and not rank

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In fact the MIT Leadership Center-

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the goal of the MIT Leadership Center
is to develop leaders

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who make a difference in the world

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And MIT is producing
those kinds of leaders today

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They are an inspiring group

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Think of Kofi Annan at the United Nations

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and the creative work of Frannie Lautier
at the World Bank Institute

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Think of Thad Allen leading hurricane
Katrina relief efforts and Janet Jo

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a student who organized the leadership
conference for undergraduate women

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Think of Ron O'Connor
who is with us today

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whose organization brings
much needed health services

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to the poorest around the world

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And Anat Binur who you'll also
be meeting later today

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a graduate student whose MEET program

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brings together Palestinian
and Israeli students

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Yes

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MIT has a strong legacy of leadership

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For decades men and women have
come up through the ranks with passion

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principle and purpose in order to tackle

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some of the most daunting
problems that the world faces

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But as Dick said that's not enough

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We cannot leave this process to chance alone

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And that's where the
leadership center at MIT comes in

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What does the leadership center do?

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In the words of Monica Lewis
an undergraduate student

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we help leaders grow into
the best versions of themselves

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We produce cutting edge
theory and research

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trying to discover the
leadership capabilities

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that the twenty first
century demands for individuals

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for high performing teams and
for effective organizational change

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We create tools for action
that come from that theory

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Right now students throughout MIT
and executives throughout the world

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from BP CVRD in Brazil

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and Merrill Lynch are using these tools
to fundamentally change

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the way that organizations are
structured inspired and led

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We educate by giving students hands on
opportunities to practice leadership skills

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We have taught over
a hundred and fifty MBA students

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the high performance team skills
that they will now use to go

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and consult to startups in
fourteen countries around the world

253
00:15:36,140 --> 00:15:38,960
We will provide workshops simulations

254
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,590
and individual coaching to a
hundred Sloan students this year

255
00:15:42,630 --> 00:15:46,190
and over fifty students in the
Leaders for Manufacturing program

256
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:53,010
We organize dialogues and
networks-fact little plug

257
00:15:53,050 --> 00:15:55,080
look at our website and there
are a whole list of things

258
00:15:55,110 --> 00:15:57,040
that will becoming down the pike-

259
00:15:57,250 --> 00:16:00,960
bringing disparate people together
from business from government

260
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:07,260
from academia and from NGOs in order
to envision and create new realities

261
00:16:09,170 --> 00:16:14,070
We are a bridge linking and leveraging
the many leadership opportunities

262
00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:16,190
that already exist here at MIT

263
00:16:17,230 --> 00:16:22,630
The MIT Leadership Center represents
a diverse community coming together

264
00:16:22,660 --> 00:16:28,030
with one common goal: to develop leaders
who make a difference in the world

265
00:16:29,150 --> 00:16:33,010
Among these leaders are the people
that you will hear from today

266
00:16:33,100 --> 00:16:37,110
Leaders in the world of science
and technology like Roz Williams

267
00:16:37,140 --> 00:16:40,130
Phil Sharp Bob Langer and Bob Metcalf

268
00:16:41,010 --> 00:16:45,080
Leaders in the student world
of MIT like Woody Flowers

269
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,160
Elizabeth Basha Anat Binur
Tim Heidel and Harel Williams

270
00:16:49,270 --> 00:16:51,240
And leaders in the world at large

271
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,140
who are working on the
international stage like Peter Senge

272
00:16:55,170 --> 00:16:59,270
Jeremy Hockenstein
Frannie Lautier and Ron O'Connor

273
00:17:00,150 --> 00:17:02,200
I know you'll join me in welcoming

274
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,250
congratulating and
most of all for today

275
00:17:05,290 --> 00:17:08,270
celebrating the leaders
that are here today

276
00:17:09,090 --> 00:17:11,160
So without further ado
I'd like to get started

277
00:17:11,190 --> 00:17:13,230
with the program with Roz Williams

278
00:17:13,260 --> 00:17:15,070
Bob Langer

279
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:19,220
Phil Sharp and Bob Metcalf who
will be leading us off today

280
00:17:19,250 --> 00:17:22,030
So thank you and let's get going

281
00:17:37,070 --> 00:17:39,090
Here were are in our leadership chairs

282
00:17:41,050 --> 00:17:42,130
They're pretty plush for MIT

283
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:43,100
Yeah they- they are

284
00:17:43,140 --> 00:17:46,250
You know I can't resist commenting
they're made for a male frame

285
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:47,240
not a female frame

286
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:49,030
Ah I see

287
00:17:49,070 --> 00:17:50,280
So it's a little big here

288
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,170
So I'm- I'm Rosalind Williams

289
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,190
Bob Metcalf

290
00:17:54,220 --> 00:17:55,210
Phil Sharp

291
00:17:55,250 --> 00:17:56,210
Bob Langer

292
00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,230
I'm just going to make a
few preliminary comments

293
00:18:00,260 --> 00:18:03,110
because most of this hour- hour

294
00:18:03,150 --> 00:18:08,060
and a half is going to be listening to
these gentlemen talk about leadership

295
00:18:08,090 --> 00:18:11,000
in a technological age

296
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,130
My preliminary comment
is simply to remind you how

297
00:18:15,230 --> 00:18:19,190
well at MIT you'd say
it's not intuitively obvious

298
00:18:19,230 --> 00:18:23,130
that leadership and technology
have anything to do with each other

299
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:25,130
Technology

300
00:18:25,170 --> 00:18:28,060
I mean every society needs technology

301
00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:32,280
But traditionally those are the people
who have hard skills expertise

302
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:35,060
They certainly aren't leaders

303
00:18:35,180 --> 00:18:39,020
They're necessary but it has
nothing to do with leadership

304
00:18:39,140 --> 00:18:41,970
Leadership has
traditionally meant military

305
00:18:42,010 --> 00:18:47,010
political maybe more
recently business leadership

306
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,970
And that's the realm of soft skills
is people skills

307
00:18:52,010 --> 00:18:56,170
Those are the people who
give commands to the technologists

308
00:18:57,050 --> 00:19:02,050
So to say that leadership and
technology are beginning to converge

309
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,140
this is something new under the sun
something new in history

310
00:19:06,260 --> 00:19:12,040
And- and I think extremely important
because technology is very powerful

311
00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:14,060
Leadership is very powerful

312
00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:19,200
And you put the two together you have
incredible power to make things happen

313
00:19:19,230 --> 00:19:24,160
So we're going to talk today
about leadership in technology

314
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:32,280
about leadership through technology
and also leadership as technology

315
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:35,280
and try to understand how these
two things fit together

316
00:19:36,170 --> 00:19:39,100
So the format is a discussion format

317
00:19:39,140 --> 00:19:42,050
and I'm going to ask
some general questions

318
00:19:42,090 --> 00:19:45,130
have each of the three
people here provide an answer

319
00:19:45,170 --> 00:19:50,080
but then I hope just have a
conversation in an informal way

320
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,240
We'll- we'll see how it goes

321
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:55,240
And questions can be worked in

322
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:56,970
Let's get started

323
00:19:57,010 --> 00:20:01,130
and then after we've
had some time for discussion

324
00:20:01,170 --> 00:20:06,660
then maybe the questions can begin to
be woven into the conversation

325
00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:12,160
But the first question I have for each
of the people on the stage is

326
00:20:13,010 --> 00:20:16,020
I'm interested in your giving an overview

327
00:20:16,050 --> 00:20:17,080
I'm not doing an introduction

328
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:20,240
I want you to introduce yourself
in general terms

329
00:20:20,270 --> 00:20:24,020
How have you been
a technological leader?

330
00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:28,190
And then if there is
a more specific example of-

331
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:30,040
of that leadership in action

332
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,140
a moment in time when
if you can describe how it worked

333
00:20:34,180 --> 00:20:39,280
So I'd like an overview but also a-
an example if you could think of one

334
00:20:39,310 --> 00:20:41,050
Bob

335
00:20:42,190 --> 00:20:43,230
Yes

336
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,020
Gee

337
00:20:46,060 --> 00:20:47,200
He knew this question was coming

338
00:20:47,230 --> 00:20:49,170
This is not out of the blue

339
00:20:50,220 --> 00:20:54,090
I invented something called
Ethernet thirty three years ago

340
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:56,180
and have spent my life promoting it

341
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:02,180
And I founded a company once that
grew to five billion dollars a year

342
00:21:02,210 --> 00:21:04,180
although it's quite a bit smaller now

343
00:21:05,170 --> 00:21:10,230
And I was a journalist for ten years
writing a column for a billion people

344
00:21:11,180 --> 00:21:12,170
or so

345
00:21:12,210 --> 00:21:14,080
We debate how many

346
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:18,030
Six hundred and twenty nine thousand
was the latest review

347
00:21:18,060 --> 00:21:20,050
And I've been a venture
capitalist recently

348
00:21:20,090 --> 00:21:22,220
and I think my business
is technological innovation

349
00:21:22,250 --> 00:21:25,240
which I think is a high calling

350
00:21:27,010 --> 00:21:31,130
And I have a pretty anecdotal rough
and tumble view of leadership

351
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,110
Please go ahead I'm nodding

352
00:21:38,110 --> 00:21:41,130
I think my grandest leadership moment

353
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,020
was standing up to the IBM corporation
in the mid eighties

354
00:21:45,060 --> 00:21:48,150
when I had an invention that
I thought was better than what they had

355
00:21:48,250 --> 00:21:51,190
and they threw all their
monopoly resources against me

356
00:21:51,220 --> 00:21:55,210
and I was alone and surrounded
and I beat them

357
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,100
I said that there's
a model of leadership

358
00:22:04,140 --> 00:22:08,290
that comes out of warfare and
I don't think that that's disappeared

359
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,170
No that's- that's important

360
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,080
Okay just-

361
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:16,060
I'll say I would like to talk later about
you've worked in a lot of organizations

362
00:22:16,090 --> 00:22:18,120
different types of organizations

363
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,020
So how leadership differs
in the different organizations

364
00:22:22,060 --> 00:22:24,260
Don't answer that now but
you know let's just get back to that

365
00:22:24,290 --> 00:22:25,260
Phil

366
00:22:26,070 --> 00:22:32,090
Well I think my most consistent part of
my career in leadership has been

367
00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:34,240
at MIT in leadership in science

368
00:22:36,010 --> 00:22:39,970
I clearly sought out MIT
as a place to be a scientist

369
00:22:40,010 --> 00:22:46,210
because I felt it was a place that
appreciated being a leader in science

370
00:22:46,250 --> 00:22:53,230
had people about the faculty who could
show you how to be a leader in science

371
00:22:53,260 --> 00:22:55,980
and attracted students
that would allow you

372
00:22:56,020 --> 00:22:59,050
to train the next generation
of leader in science

373
00:22:59,090 --> 00:23:04,250
So when I was at that stage in which
I was looking for a permanent position

374
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,240
I waited almost a year
to get a telephone call from MIT

375
00:23:10,020 --> 00:23:11,990
and I finally got one

376
00:23:12,030 --> 00:23:16,210
And that was a day that
was very important for me

377
00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:19,260
And what I've done here is
try to create an environment

378
00:23:19,290 --> 00:23:22,280
in my own laboratory and
in my own teaching

379
00:23:22,310 --> 00:23:25,060
that would stimulate leaders

380
00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:28,120
give them responsibility
try to set a goal

381
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:33,120
try to create an environment around
them that would encourage them

382
00:23:33,150 --> 00:23:36,680
provide them with the tools
and input they need

383
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:40,210
and then give them responsibility
to make mistakes

384
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,030
You can't be a leader

385
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:46,040
you can't train someone unless
you allow them to make mistakes

386
00:23:46,070 --> 00:23:49,060
You can tell them about your opinion

387
00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:54,080
as to how successful something would
be or not or how important it is

388
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:58,250
but unless you give them the opportunity
to make mistakes you can't train them

389
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,050
The most important event

390
00:24:01,090 --> 00:24:07,060
I think at MIT in terms of leadership outside
of MIT came in the mid seventies

391
00:24:07,170 --> 00:24:11,220
when science had
developed this technology of

392
00:24:11,260 --> 00:24:16,160
recombinant DNA in research
laboratories around the world

393
00:24:17,070 --> 00:24:21,070
The society large pharmaceuticals
chemical companies-

394
00:24:22,250 --> 00:24:28,060
technology was very foreign to them it
was almost exclusively in academic labs

395
00:24:28,180 --> 00:24:34,100
And then the opportunity arose to move

396
00:24:34,140 --> 00:24:38,180
this technology from
the laboratory out into society

397
00:24:38,220 --> 00:24:42,190
and it almost was a social obligation
in my opinion to- to do it

398
00:24:42,230 --> 00:24:46,670
Why do I- why did I consider it as-
it's an interesting question

399
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:51,120
why I considered it as a faculty member
at MIT a social obligation

400
00:24:51,150 --> 00:24:54,000
And that's because I was at MIT

401
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,140
I mean this place as an environment
creates the feeling

402
00:24:58,170 --> 00:25:00,630
the understanding that
you can make a difference

403
00:25:00,670 --> 00:25:03,100
You have a responsibility to
use the science

404
00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:04,170
and technology and everything

405
00:25:04,210 --> 00:25:08,220
that's given to you to
make a difference in society

406
00:25:08,250 --> 00:25:11,040
That comes with the water around here

407
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,120
Not that water
but the water that comes out of-

408
00:25:13,150 --> 00:25:14,960
Well

409
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,180
Out of coolers

410
00:25:16,210 --> 00:25:17,240
Yeah

411
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:24,250
So when there was a telephone call
in 1976 by a venture capitalist

412
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:31,220
who asked me to go and consult on
a possible investment in biotech-

413
00:25:31,250 --> 00:25:33,230
it happened to be Genentech-

414
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,160
I had never consulted with a
venture capitalist before in my life

415
00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:43,630
But I went up I looked at
what they were proposing to do

416
00:25:43,660 --> 00:25:48,030
I was very positive about it
thought it was exciting

417
00:25:48,070 --> 00:25:56,110
And then as we discussed the opportunities
and the promise of recombinant DNA

418
00:25:56,140 --> 00:26:00,170
I took the opportunity to work
with venture capitalists

419
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,960
and other colleagues in science and-

420
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:08,110
and create a biotech company that is now
the oldest freestanding biotech company

421
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,230
So it was interesting

422
00:26:12,270 --> 00:26:18,120
The opportunity came through MIT
because the venture capitalist

423
00:26:18,150 --> 00:26:20,170
who called me was an ex MIT alum

424
00:26:21,290 --> 00:26:27,090
And when I did this and started this type
of involvement here at MIT

425
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:30,130
it was sort of natural that that happens

426
00:26:31,050 --> 00:26:36,200
My colleagues didn't look askew at me and
say you you're tarnishing your fingers

427
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:38,970
by- by moving this technology

428
00:26:39,010 --> 00:26:43,180
and I know at many other great
universities that was the case

429
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:45,240
And then at the time when the-

430
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,070
it was debated as to how universities

431
00:26:48,110 --> 00:26:51,220
and technology and companies
should interact in recombinant DNA

432
00:26:51,250 --> 00:26:55,190
and genetic engineering
it wasn't even a question here

433
00:26:55,230 --> 00:27:00,680
We had established the principles earlier
in electrical engineering and-

434
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:06,140
and computer science so biotech just
naturally arose in the- in the place

435
00:27:07,210 --> 00:27:11,070
So those are sort of
examples of leadership that I-

436
00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:14,000
I'm very proud of- of being part of

437
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,120
I would just to add my gloss
I would say three important things

438
00:27:18,150 --> 00:27:21,150
One you're comparison between a-

439
00:27:21,190 --> 00:27:26,040
any leadership team and a lab
full of graduate students-

440
00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:28,680
I suspect we're going to hear
more about that-

441
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:31,860
but I mean
if you've worked in that lab setting¡K

442
00:27:31,890 --> 00:27:34,970
When Bob Brown stepped down
as provost this summer-

443
00:27:35,010 --> 00:27:39,140
I don't know if-
if you were at his retirement occasion-

444
00:27:39,170 --> 00:27:43,150
he- he gave a wonderful
description of his work

445
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:46,190
as provost comparing it
to being a professor in a lab

446
00:27:46,220 --> 00:27:49,150
like in a meeting
he said there are these moments

447
00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:51,160
where you feel like you're
working with graduate students

448
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:53,040
and something happens I thought

449
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,010
"Boy I've never thought of the job
of provost as that pleasurable"

450
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:58,130
but anyway¡K

451
00:27:59,050 --> 00:28:01,140
Two the freedom to fail-

452
00:28:01,180 --> 00:28:07,260
and I would say if the leadership
center could provide space to fail

453
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:11,050
that would be
a wonderful social invention

454
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,020
because there's so few of them

455
00:28:13,060 --> 00:28:15,210
You know everybody's afraid of
the costs of failure

456
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,080
so okay and- and just-

457
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:22,040
In many in business environments
you really can't afford to fail

458
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:24,220
But in a training environment
in many cases¡K

459
00:28:24,260 --> 00:28:29,190
And I would say students are more and
more afraid to fail or take risks

460
00:28:29,220 --> 00:28:30,160
because you know

461
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,170
it might do something to their record or they
might wear the wrong shoes or something like-

462
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,150
like that

463
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:41,200
No I- I think that's a very important
factor to integrate into the center

464
00:28:41,230 --> 00:28:43,090
one way or the other

465
00:28:43,220 --> 00:28:47,040
And- and then just-
just finally the-

466
00:28:47,220 --> 00:28:52,090
the you're sort of saying MIT is
already doing something really right

467
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,120
because it's in the air that you-

468
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:59,030
you should be going you should go into
the larger world one way or the other

469
00:28:59,060 --> 00:29:01,110
So- so we don't have to invent
that it's already here

470
00:29:01,140 --> 00:29:03,710
we just have to maybe enhance it

471
00:29:03,740 --> 00:29:06,240
Bob do you want to add to this?

472
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,190
Sure well I mean actually I have what
I'll say probably in some way mirrors

473
00:29:10,220 --> 00:29:13,090
what you just heard
from my two colleagues

474
00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:16,210
but let me also take it
in a couple of other directions

475
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,230
So I- and maybe add some other things

476
00:29:19,270 --> 00:29:22,190
So I think what I probably look back at

477
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:25,000
what I've done it's
almost-as a chemical engineer

478
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,190
that's my background-almost like in
some ways the- the road not taken

479
00:29:29,220 --> 00:29:32,250
And Phil stole my¡K

480
00:29:32,290 --> 00:29:35,120
But- but basically when I got done

481
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,180
I actually got my degree from MIT
in 1974 in chemical engineering

482
00:29:39,210 --> 00:29:42,180
and then you know
as people may know

483
00:29:42,220 --> 00:29:44,200
that you know people think
there's an energy crisis today

484
00:29:44,230 --> 00:29:45,200
Well in 1974

485
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,190
if you remember for there was like

486
00:29:47,230 --> 00:29:51,260
if you tried to get gas at a at a gas
station you had about a two hour wait

487
00:29:51,290 --> 00:29:53,080
And the consequence of that

488
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,090
at least for me and for my
colleagues in chemical engineering

489
00:29:56,130 --> 00:30:00,600
is that there was just an incredible
number of job offers at oil companies

490
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,080
And actually I was really surprised
I got all these offers from oil companies

491
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:07,120
I think four from Exxon alone

492
00:30:08,260 --> 00:30:12,250
And- and I- and I wasn't that good
I mean I was so-so

493
00:30:13,130 --> 00:30:16,570
and- and Shell and others but I-
I guess when I went to these places

494
00:30:16,610 --> 00:30:20,020
you know I really and it's no
I don't want to be negative about them

495
00:30:20,050 --> 00:30:21,250
but I wasn't excited about it

496
00:30:21,290 --> 00:30:24,250
I just felt I wanted
to do something with my life

497
00:30:24,290 --> 00:30:27,150
you know what I guess the thing that
really made an impression on me

498
00:30:27,180 --> 00:30:30,100
I got a job offer at Exxon in Baton Rouge

499
00:30:30,130 --> 00:30:32,100
And they were showing me how if-

500
00:30:32,140 --> 00:30:34,220
if I was able to
improve the yield of the oil

501
00:30:34,260 --> 00:30:38,020
by point one percent it would
be worth billions of dollars

502
00:30:38,110 --> 00:30:42,130
And I thought to myself on my flight home
I didn't want to do that

503
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,690
And I was searching around for
what I did want to do

504
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,220
and I actually was looking
into educational programs

505
00:30:47,250 --> 00:30:50,100
I actually then thought
about hospital programs

506
00:30:50,140 --> 00:30:54,030
and I was lucky I got a job
at Harvard medical school

507
00:30:54,060 --> 00:30:55,090
because I always had this dream

508
00:30:55,130 --> 00:30:57,070
that maybe I could
do something to help

509
00:30:57,110 --> 00:31:00,150
people's health with my
chemical engineering background

510
00:31:00,180 --> 00:31:03,050
And I ended up spending
my whole life trying to

511
00:31:03,090 --> 00:31:08,080
then do that in trying to apply chemistry
and engineering to medical problems

512
00:31:08,110 --> 00:31:10,010
and- and to try
to do it experimentally

513
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,120
Before I had done that

514
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,060
basically chemical engineers had been a
little bit involved in- in medicine

515
00:31:15,090 --> 00:31:17,110
but mostly just doing
theory and mathematics

516
00:31:17,150 --> 00:31:20,200
And so I wanted to try to see if
we could really do experiments

517
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,260
make things that might be able to
help improve people's health

518
00:31:23,290 --> 00:31:25,180
And to pick a specific example

519
00:31:25,220 --> 00:31:28,160
actually which
Bob Metcalf reminded me of

520
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,070
Well this is not
a one minute sort of moment

521
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:37,170
where I clobbered IBM but-but-but-
but it's probably a seventeen year struggle

522
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:42,130
And in 1980 I had this idea about
how we could create new materials

523
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:47,060
and in particular how we could
use materials to deliver drugs locally

524
00:31:47,090 --> 00:31:48,620
to specific sites in the body

525
00:31:48,660 --> 00:31:50,120
That would ultimately lead many

526
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,020
many years later-
I certainly didn't realize this

527
00:31:53,050 --> 00:31:55,090
at the time-to new
ways of treating cancer

528
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,640
to drug eluting stents
and all kinds of things

529
00:31:57,670 --> 00:32:00,120
But in 1980 when
I first proposed it you know

530
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,130
the way if you're a faculty
member what you have to do

531
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:04,160
you always have to raise money

532
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,280
That's a big deal in
science and engineering

533
00:32:07,310 --> 00:32:09,210
Have to raise money
so you write grants

534
00:32:09,250 --> 00:32:12,050
So I would write grants to
the national institutes of health

535
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,040
That was the most logical place

536
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,990
And then the way it works
for those of you that aren't familiar

537
00:32:17,030 --> 00:32:20,230
is you have a review panel
which are professors at other universities

538
00:32:20,260 --> 00:32:22,200
And they sit around
they review your grant

539
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,050
and then they decide whether
you should get the money or not

540
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,020
They also can write
pretty insulting things

541
00:32:29,130 --> 00:32:30,150
So

542
00:32:30,190 --> 00:32:32,200
at any rate in 1981

543
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,250
I- I'll just do it but in 1981
we wrote the grant

544
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,130
and I-I- they turned it down

545
00:32:38,170 --> 00:32:40,150
they said we'd never be
able to make these materials

546
00:32:40,190 --> 00:32:42,140
And the story I tell is
I had a graduate student

547
00:32:42,170 --> 00:32:44,220
at the time-
he ultimately became president

548
00:32:44,260 --> 00:32:48,000
of the Alta corporation-but
then he was a low graduate student

549
00:32:48,030 --> 00:32:49,020
He figured out how to make them

550
00:32:49,060 --> 00:32:52,130
sent the grant back in again a
couple years later¡K Again they said

551
00:32:52,170 --> 00:32:55,210
"Well there's some other problem
we still shouldn't give you money"

552
00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:00,010
I had another couple of postdocs
and they became-

553
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,020
now today chairmen
of major departments

554
00:33:02,050 --> 00:33:04,060
at places like Johns Hopkins Duke¡K

555
00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:06,960
Again we sent it back
two more years later

556
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,010
They the- the review said well
we can't do some other things

557
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,580
still shouldn't give you money

558
00:33:11,620 --> 00:33:13,090
And the two graduate students

559
00:33:13,130 --> 00:33:16,030
and postdocs that worked on
that are now like professors

560
00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:20,030
full professors at Brown Chairman of
Medicinal Chemistry at Hebrew University

561
00:33:20,060 --> 00:33:23,150
Sent it back again
I had another graduate student

562
00:33:24,090 --> 00:33:26,960
he's now chairman of orthopedic surgery

563
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,210
and university professor
at the University of Virginia

564
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,050
is on the FDA Science Board

565
00:33:31,090 --> 00:33:34,150
got elected to the Institute of Medicine
and the National Academy of Science

566
00:33:34,180 --> 00:33:40,060
It kept on going till about 1996
until the FDA approved this and-

567
00:33:40,100 --> 00:33:44,190
and was the first time they ever approved
this idea of local polymer drug delivery-

568
00:33:44,220 --> 00:33:45,230
the first time at¡K

569
00:33:45,270 --> 00:33:48,080
And so the story I tell is you know

570
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,120
I'm incredibly proud of how well my
graduate students and postdocs have done

571
00:33:52,150 --> 00:33:55,130
They've all become leaders
they're chairmen of major departments

572
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,120
hold endowed chairs
chairmen of major corporations

573
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,050
Whereas I always point out the reviewers
they haven't done nearly as well

574
00:34:07,010 --> 00:34:09,030
They- they weren't from MIT

575
00:34:12,060 --> 00:34:13,000
Again

576
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,160
the- the image of courage you know
of waging war with your opponent

577
00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:17,660
you know mano a mano¡K

578
00:34:17,690 --> 00:34:19,090
but you both I mean

579
00:34:19,130 --> 00:34:22,220
you both are talking
about other types of courage

580
00:34:22,260 --> 00:34:28,000
Which is you know staring-
staring not so much somebody down as-

581
00:34:28,070 --> 00:34:29,630
as another organization

582
00:34:29,660 --> 00:34:31,150
But also just you know

583
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:33,730
if you're a young professor
you're supposed to get grants

584
00:34:33,770 --> 00:34:36,280
This is good for your career It-
it does take courage to say

585
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:37,960
"This is what I want to do"

586
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,140
even if they're not
funding me or they're not

587
00:34:40,170 --> 00:34:42,130
you know it's not easy to get the funding

588
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,060
It doesn't sound as heroic

589
00:34:44,100 --> 00:34:50,630
but it's- you know it-it
takes it takes some courage

590
00:34:50,670 --> 00:34:57,170
I would like to ask all of
you in your own experience

591
00:34:57,250 --> 00:35:03,000
how you learned leadership skills and-

592
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:09,020
and whether you can chart
a sort of development

593
00:35:09,050 --> 00:35:10,170
you know starting with you know

594
00:35:10,210 --> 00:35:14,600
where- where would you go back to
and how did those skills develop

595
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:19,000
And also whether do you feel like
you were a technologist first

596
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:22,080
who became a leader
or from an early you know

597
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,250
early point in your career you were
always trying to combine these two roles

598
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,990
Or maybe it's
another way of asking it is

599
00:35:28,030 --> 00:35:31,000
whether the two roles are really
that different after all

600
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:33,070
What I have in mind is the-

601
00:35:33,110 --> 00:35:37,210
the pattern in engineering for a
long time was you became an engineer

602
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:38,960
you learn your technical skills

603
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,250
you got in an organization and then you
moved into management at some point

604
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:43,220
It was sequential

605
00:35:43,260 --> 00:35:47,280
You did x years as an engineer
then you moved into management

606
00:35:47,310 --> 00:35:53,130
Is that how it works
or is it more simultaneous?

607
00:35:55,180 --> 00:36:00,050
I worked at Xerox corporation
and sort of became a manager eventually

608
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:00,990
Yeah

609
00:36:01,030 --> 00:36:04,200
And then I hit the- the ceiling and
then it was necessary for me

610
00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:06,130
to leave and start my own company

611
00:36:06,170 --> 00:36:09,990
And- and would you define that
as the point where you moved-

612
00:36:10,030 --> 00:36:15,010
I mean management is not the
same as leadership necessarily right?

613
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:15,150
Mm hmm

614
00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:17,590
I mean or maybe I should ask
that as a question

615
00:36:17,630 --> 00:36:19,960
All right or so is
that the point in your life

616
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:25,170
where you feel like you had to
become a leader more on your own?

617
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,130
I think I was
obnoxious long before that

618
00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:33,200
I'm sure we could- if we had This
Is Your Life we could bring on some-

619
00:36:33,230 --> 00:36:38,280
No I think when you're obnoxious
or willing to be obnoxious

620
00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:40,050
that's an important step

621
00:36:40,090 --> 00:36:42,050
Okay Because we have
this idealization of innovation

622
00:36:42,090 --> 00:36:45,670
and leadership was that it's
a really lovely thing we all like it

623
00:36:45,700 --> 00:36:49,250
And- and just the other day in
Kresge Auditorium the slide came up-

624
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,110
Who was it?

625
00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:53,080
Nolan Bushnell put the slide up
you may remember it

626
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,230
"innovation is something everybody
likes until they see it"

627
00:36:56,260 --> 00:36:58,040
Yeah

628
00:36:59,080 --> 00:36:59,250
Yeah

629
00:36:59,290 --> 00:37:02,050
So you- So I think being- or willing-

630
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,110
Yeah but talk more about-

631
00:37:03,140 --> 00:37:03,240
Yeah

632
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,270
Talk more about being obnoxious
as an element of leadership

633
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,140
The- the enemy is the status quo

634
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:18,060
And the status quo is very resourceful
and determined to defeat innovation

635
00:37:18,090 --> 00:37:21,960
And so they make you feel bad
or out of the mainstream

636
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,090
or a little funny and you really
have to be willing to be obnoxious

637
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,110
to make progress against the status quo

638
00:37:28,140 --> 00:37:29,100
I think

639
00:37:29,140 --> 00:37:34,100
Or rather that's my style of it-maybe-
you guys- you guys are nice so-

640
00:37:34,130 --> 00:37:35,270
Care to comment?

641
00:37:37,020 --> 00:37:38,240
I never trained to be obnoxious

642
00:37:39,260 --> 00:37:40,250
It came naturally

643
00:37:40,290 --> 00:37:43,000
but I never trained to be obnoxious

644
00:37:43,260 --> 00:37:48,080
But it was clear I was a technologist by
the time I was ten or twelve years old

645
00:37:48,110 --> 00:37:53,090
I mean I had already you know fallen in love
with learning about science

646
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,260
and being involved in-
in technology math science and

647
00:37:56,290 --> 00:38:00,050
that sort of thing very young

648
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:04,180
The willingness as Bob's story

649
00:38:04,210 --> 00:38:08,080
so well typifies of walking alone

650
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,160
of not wondering
or not asking whether every

651
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:17,160
you know whether others have
trotted this path is something

652
00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:20,220
that I think is a hallmark of-
of leadership I mean

653
00:38:20,250 --> 00:38:23,080
if you're not willing to take that step

654
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,640
where you see
the opportunity and you see a goal

655
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,130
you cannot possibly be
in my opinion a leader

656
00:38:30,170 --> 00:38:33,060
Now the skills that we typically
associate with leadership

657
00:38:33,090 --> 00:38:36,130
of how to get other people to play your game

658
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:38,120
how to get other people to-

659
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:42,060
to work to their optimal
talents in your environment

660
00:38:42,090 --> 00:38:45,130
and with you are skills that I

661
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:46,080
you know

662
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,080
learned in high school sports

663
00:38:49,110 --> 00:38:50,050
Ah

664
00:38:50,090 --> 00:38:52,100
Interacting with people

665
00:38:52,260 --> 00:38:54,140
from mentors

666
00:38:54,180 --> 00:38:58,620
as in graduate school
and in postgraduate school

667
00:38:58,650 --> 00:39:03,060
seeing how people
interacted with others and-

668
00:39:03,090 --> 00:39:06,130
and led them into
doing new things and-

669
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,130
And as I moved
through the academic world-

670
00:39:09,170 --> 00:39:14,060
and that's my environment-
I learned a number of those skills

671
00:39:14,090 --> 00:39:17,100
and saw them exemplified by others

672
00:39:17,140 --> 00:39:21,290
And then as I got more and
more involved in business outside MIT

673
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:25,010
it was a whole new world of skills
hat I wasn't aware of

674
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,170
And that are

675
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:34,190
you know tools that one uses to motivate
create communities make contacts

676
00:39:34,220 --> 00:39:36,100
that are- are very important

677
00:39:36,140 --> 00:39:48,140
One of the- the biggest skills that
students at MIT lack is schmoozing

678
00:39:48,170 --> 00:39:50,030
Schmoozing

679
00:39:50,210 --> 00:39:51,030
Right

680
00:39:51,070 --> 00:39:52,160
schmoozing

681
00:39:52,250 --> 00:39:54,040
Basically networking

682
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,020
It's- it's- it is amazing

683
00:39:56,060 --> 00:39:58,970
I have a lot of highly
trained graduate students

684
00:39:59,010 --> 00:40:04,250
and postdocs in- in my environment
who after they are with me for a while

685
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,010
or when they come to my lab

686
00:40:06,050 --> 00:40:08,270
say "I'm really headed out
into the private sector"

687
00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:12,010
And fine- and we train talk

688
00:40:12,050 --> 00:40:15,080
do research together and
then they come to the point

689
00:40:15,110 --> 00:40:18,960
where they're looking to find a job

690
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,510
And you start
talking to them about you know

691
00:40:21,550 --> 00:40:24,320
how in the private
sector people learn things

692
00:40:24,350 --> 00:40:27,050
how they- they move around
and it's networking

693
00:40:27,090 --> 00:40:31,200
It's- it's you know meeting people so
you see where there are opportunities

694
00:40:31,230 --> 00:40:36,160
tell people about your interests
your skills your vision

695
00:40:36,190 --> 00:40:39,720
And then many cases there will
be a telephone call that says

696
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,260
you know I think there's
an opportunity here you should-

697
00:40:43,290 --> 00:40:46,130
you should go and explore

698
00:40:46,170 --> 00:40:49,010
And that type of networking is something

699
00:40:49,050 --> 00:40:53,210
that a student doesn't
naturally participate in

700
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:56,180
particularly students trained in places

701
00:40:56,220 --> 00:40:58,610
in science more than in engineering

702
00:40:58,650 --> 00:41:00,970
I think it's more common in engineering

703
00:41:01,010 --> 00:41:05,150
but in science you have to lead them to
it you have to tell them about it

704
00:41:05,180 --> 00:41:07,010
you have to introduce them to it

705
00:41:07,050 --> 00:41:09,120
you got to emphasize
the importance of it

706
00:41:09,150 --> 00:41:10,190
and is-

707
00:41:10,230 --> 00:41:14,200
is an important part of it

708
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:16,630
So do you want do you want to comment

709
00:41:16,670 --> 00:41:18,990
Bob on- You said you have to be-

710
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:21,160
there has to be an element of being obnoxious

711
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:27,050
Phil's talking about schmoozing
and you think of those as opposites

712
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,050
right? Or are they just

713
00:41:28,090 --> 00:41:29,290
you have to know when to be one
and when to be the-

714
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,290
Somebody should
write that down: schmoozing

715
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:32,210
Schmoozing

716
00:41:32,250 --> 00:41:34,150
I was going to get to that later

717
00:41:34,190 --> 00:41:36,060
now a Nobel Prize winner has agreed

718
00:41:36,090 --> 00:41:37,080
Well yeah

719
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:43,260
Schmoozing is- schmoozing and being
obnoxious are separate dimensions

720
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:47,130
But it sounds like both are necessary

721
00:41:47,170 --> 00:41:52,040
They're- do you look like you
were going to add to that?

722
00:41:52,170 --> 00:41:54,130
Do you- do you want to?

723
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:55,090
No I mean

724
00:41:55,130 --> 00:41:57,220
I- that's a very important point

725
00:41:57,260 --> 00:42:03,150
And it's a skill that in the academic
community we do not stress enough

726
00:42:03,180 --> 00:42:05,730
We network within the academic community

727
00:42:05,770 --> 00:42:08,290
and we can see very clearly the next step

728
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,190
and the goals are all laid out

729
00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:12,250
and it's easy for students to see that

730
00:42:12,290 --> 00:42:15,200
When students step outside that environment

731
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:16,710
they are you know

732
00:42:16,750 --> 00:42:18,120
somewhat at loss

733
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,170
And that's true of even MIT undergrads

734
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,180
They're somewhat at loss

735
00:42:23,220 --> 00:42:28,060
So you- you have to encourage
them to make that step

736
00:42:28,100 --> 00:42:34,180
So- so if we started a list of
other skills or tools of leadership

737
00:42:34,210 --> 00:42:35,130
okay

738
00:42:35,170 --> 00:42:36,980
so we have two now

739
00:42:37,020 --> 00:42:41,010
One is know when to be obnoxious or-
or to stand up for yourself

740
00:42:41,050 --> 00:42:45,010
all right? Whether- whether or
not it makes other people upset

741
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,140
The other is schmoozing or networking

742
00:42:48,170 --> 00:42:49,590
which are not quite¡K

743
00:42:49,620 --> 00:42:50,970
Somewhat the same

744
00:42:51,010 --> 00:42:52,090
Yeah they're-Yeah Yeah

745
00:42:52,130 --> 00:42:53,170
One is more focused than the other

746
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,050
Do you do you want to add-

747
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:56,050
Oh integrity

748
00:42:56,090 --> 00:42:57,630
Oh lest we forget

749
00:42:57,660 --> 00:42:59,130
Lest we forget

750
00:42:59,170 --> 00:43:03,680
I mean it's all meaningless
unless you have an integrity

751
00:43:03,710 --> 00:43:07,490
or a leader has an integrity
in terms of setting a goal

752
00:43:07,530 --> 00:43:11,280
articulating the goal and
then acting with integrity

753
00:43:11,310 --> 00:43:13,130
in the interactions with others

754
00:43:13,170 --> 00:43:16,090
I don't think you
can get others to lead-

755
00:43:16,130 --> 00:43:20,040
to follow you and work
with you unless they understand

756
00:43:20,070 --> 00:43:22,280
that there's a sort
of basic principles-

757
00:43:22,310 --> 00:43:25,180
many principles socially

758
00:43:25,210 --> 00:43:26,080
scientifically

759
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:31,100
technically that you are committed to

760
00:43:31,130 --> 00:43:32,120
Okay all right

761
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,090
but I hope that was captured too

762
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:35,980
because we- you said integrity

763
00:43:36,020 --> 00:43:38,130
I thought maybe you meant trustworthiness

764
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:39,100
I'll be honest

765
00:43:39,140 --> 00:43:40,240
But you defined it differently

766
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:45,150
You said integrity as
something that really matters to you

767
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:50,020
and that you're focused on this
and nothing's going to deter-

768
00:43:50,050 --> 00:43:50,170
Well

769
00:43:50,210 --> 00:43:52,150
yeah you change your
goals from time to time

770
00:43:52,180 --> 00:43:53,010
Yeah

771
00:43:53,050 --> 00:43:56,980
But you have to have an integrity
about what your goals are

772
00:43:57,020 --> 00:44:00,240
and what you articulate to others
as a goal of the group and in-

773
00:44:00,270 --> 00:44:03,260
in trying to achieve that goal

774
00:44:03,290 --> 00:44:04,210
But maybe-

775
00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:08,020
Yeah Yeah Yeah
And I'd like to hear from -

776
00:44:08,050 --> 00:44:09,020
- We have to-
- the Bobs

777
00:44:09,060 --> 00:44:12,240
We have to walk the talk
because- can tell-

778
00:44:12,270 --> 00:44:14,100
Yeah

779
00:44:16,070 --> 00:44:19,170
We- we had a discussion
about passion before this-

780
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,180
this because this is used
in the literature

781
00:44:22,210 --> 00:44:25,200
And I was sort of objecting to

782
00:44:25,230 --> 00:44:26,110
you know

783
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:30,070
passion as a necessity of
leadership because I said

784
00:44:30,110 --> 00:44:33,210
"Well passion can be a very
negative thing a very dangerous thing"

785
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:36,170
So- so actually we
were talking about the-

786
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:37,130
the you know

787
00:44:37,170 --> 00:44:41,080
a vocabulary for what drives people

788
00:44:41,110 --> 00:44:42,130
In other words

789
00:44:42,170 --> 00:44:45,080
there are all these tools
but there's got to be some-

790
00:44:45,110 --> 00:44:47,290
some something driving you

791
00:44:49,260 --> 00:44:51,010
Would you-would you-

792
00:44:51,050 --> 00:44:56,210
would you be able to articulate
what that is in your case?

793
00:44:58,010 --> 00:44:59,270
We haven't heard enough from Bob yet

794
00:44:59,300 --> 00:45:02,020
He's next- he's- don't worry

795
00:45:02,060 --> 00:45:03,140
Don't worry
we have an hour and a quarter

796
00:45:03,170 --> 00:45:05,280
He's a member of all three academies

797
00:45:08,180 --> 00:45:10,110
In my- in my case

798
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:13,150
I keep trying to retire and fail

799
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:17,270
and the reason is that
I find joy in excellence

800
00:45:18,180 --> 00:45:20,220
So doing something
anything

801
00:45:20,250 --> 00:45:21,980
Yeah Yeah

802
00:45:22,020 --> 00:45:27,130
well is- sort of the-right-
the core motivation I find

803
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,180
The joy of excellence

804
00:45:28,220 --> 00:45:31,260
So doing- playing tennis really well

805
00:45:31,290 --> 00:45:33,160
or writing really well

806
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,050
or running a little company really well

807
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,280
leading really well¡K

808
00:45:40,140 --> 00:45:41,960
It's doing it well is-

809
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:46,180
I find is my bedrock
source of fulfillment and joy

810
00:45:49,100 --> 00:45:50,240
Do you want to-? Please yeah

811
00:45:50,270 --> 00:45:51,760
Question The-

812
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,260
the question is

813
00:45:54,050 --> 00:45:54,220
you know

814
00:45:54,260 --> 00:45:59,020
what drives you towards leadership?

815
00:46:00,170 --> 00:46:01,200
Well first

816
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:05,250
I don't know if I even tend to think of
myself as a leader I don't think I do

817
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:06,090
but-

818
00:46:06,130 --> 00:46:08,040
Well that's an interesting-

819
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:10,100
said differently

820
00:46:10,140 --> 00:46:12,040
Certainly that was
never my goal in life

821
00:46:12,070 --> 00:46:13,150
- Be a leader
- Yeah okay

822
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:15,070
I sort of had some simple ideas

823
00:46:15,110 --> 00:46:16,970
you know I-
like I was saying before

824
00:46:17,010 --> 00:46:19,100
I just wanted to see
if I could do some good

825
00:46:19,130 --> 00:46:20,140
you know and I

826
00:46:20,180 --> 00:46:22,130
thought if I was able to do that I'd-

827
00:46:22,170 --> 00:46:25,090
and I did I got a lot of
satisfaction out of doing that

828
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,160
That good can come from

829
00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:28,020
you know

830
00:46:28,060 --> 00:46:32,040
I ended up when I was a graduate student
helping start a school for poor kids

831
00:46:32,070 --> 00:46:33,250
I got a lot of satisfaction out of that

832
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,130
and when I was a postdoc

833
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:36,100
I was you know

834
00:46:36,140 --> 00:46:40,030
working on cancer research and
I got satisfaction out- As a professor

835
00:46:40,060 --> 00:46:42,040
you know
I feel like I train people and

836
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,200
you know seeing them do well
get really good jobs

837
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:47,070
I mean do as well as
I had mentioned before

838
00:46:47,100 --> 00:46:49,130
I get a lot of satisfaction out of that

839
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:50,060
you know

840
00:46:50,100 --> 00:46:54,060
So I think it's- it's
that really just very simple

841
00:46:54,100 --> 00:46:57,220
feeling that I'm doing something
useful or doing something good

842
00:46:57,250 --> 00:46:59,290
If that turns into leadership
then that's great

843
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,980
but I don't know if I
like I say I

844
00:47:02,020 --> 00:47:05,110
you know necessarily think-
think of myself that way

845
00:47:05,140 --> 00:47:06,640
Well I'd like to-

846
00:47:06,670 --> 00:47:08,890
Yeah I mean- I mean

847
00:47:08,930 --> 00:47:11,120
I like to set a goal

848
00:47:12,150 --> 00:47:16,010
I would like to see
this technology do that

849
00:47:16,050 --> 00:47:20,240
all right? Or I would like to see
this scientific question answered

850
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:25,040
And then set a goal
and then work to achieve it

851
00:47:25,070 --> 00:47:29,050
I'd like to set a goal in
a five to ten year period

852
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,630
And I'd like to work to achieve it

853
00:47:31,660 --> 00:47:34,180
And then if I succeed I'm very happy

854
00:47:34,210 --> 00:47:35,230
If I partially succeed

855
00:47:35,260 --> 00:47:36,210
I'm a little happy

856
00:47:36,250 --> 00:47:38,100
If I fail and turn away

857
00:47:38,130 --> 00:47:39,210
I try again

858
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,150
But it- it's the- it's

859
00:47:42,190 --> 00:47:46,010
you know for me
it's setting a goal and saying

860
00:47:46,050 --> 00:47:50,220
"Can I make this happen?"
And if I can make it happen

861
00:47:50,250 --> 00:47:52,100
then if I've set the right goal

862
00:47:52,140 --> 00:47:54,140
then many people will benefit from it

863
00:47:54,170 --> 00:47:56,160
And that's most of my motivation

864
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,020
But it's really important
for me to set a goal

865
00:47:59,050 --> 00:48:01,180
and say this is what I want to do

866
00:48:01,220 --> 00:48:05,210
These are- to me these are very
interesting answers because-because

867
00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:06,990
first of all it's sequential

868
00:48:07,030 --> 00:48:10,110
You're- it isn't like
there's one huge goal

869
00:48:10,140 --> 00:48:12,130
It's a series

870
00:48:12,170 --> 00:48:16,210
It's more like climbing a ladder
than climbing to the stratosphere

871
00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:19,270
And- but I- your comment about never

872
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:21,240
well

873
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,240
thinking of yourself as leader
or planning to be a leader are-

874
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:27,070
are not quite the same thing

875
00:48:27,100 --> 00:48:28,140
but

876
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:29,160
I mean

877
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,110
I'm curious whether you would-
you would say the same things

878
00:48:33,140 --> 00:48:35,030
Phil and Bob Metcalf

879
00:48:35,250 --> 00:48:39,150
Now was- was there a moment
in your life where you said

880
00:48:39,180 --> 00:48:40,150
"I'd like to be a leader?"

881
00:48:40,190 --> 00:48:43,170
or was it more you
found yourself in that position

882
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,250
it- it happened to you?

883
00:48:45,290 --> 00:48:48,150
For me it was more
I found myself in that position

884
00:48:48,180 --> 00:48:51,010
and to achieve some things
I wanted to achieve

885
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,200
I needed to play that role

886
00:48:53,240 --> 00:49:00,240
But it wasn't something that
I had sought out as a specific objective

887
00:49:00,270 --> 00:49:05,030
being a leader of
this organization or that

888
00:49:05,070 --> 00:49:08,020
It's more getting done what
you wanted to get done

889
00:49:08,050 --> 00:49:10,110
required you to take that role that's

890
00:49:12,070 --> 00:49:13,080
Say to-

891
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,080
There are two kinds of people

892
00:49:15,110 --> 00:49:17,000
There are those who
believe that

893
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,180
history is a playing
out of inexorable forces

894
00:49:20,210 --> 00:49:22,040
and people don't matter very much and

895
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,290
then the other school of thought is
that there are action heroes

896
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,020
to borrow from the brochure

897
00:49:28,060 --> 00:49:31,240
that there are extraordinary individuals
who make a difference in the

898
00:49:31,270 --> 00:49:33,130
flow of history

899
00:49:33,170 --> 00:49:37,040
And I read a book in eighth grade
that convinced me that-

900
00:49:37,070 --> 00:49:38,120
to the second point of view

901
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,220
that extraordinary individuals matter

902
00:49:40,250 --> 00:49:42,990
The world needs leaders

903
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:48,120
and therefore-this is a
different answer than you gave-

904
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:52,190
that someone needs to
/be a prime mover in this and that

905
00:49:52,220 --> 00:49:55,080
so I'll volunteer for the job

906
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:02,060
To get back to the question
of how you do the job though

907
00:50:02,090 --> 00:50:04,100
Not- not just what
motivates you but how-

908
00:50:04,140 --> 00:50:08,120
how you do leadership
in the technological age

909
00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:11,130
I mean we've-
we've got obnoxiousness

910
00:50:11,170 --> 00:50:13,620
or sticking up for yourself schmoozing

911
00:50:13,660 --> 00:50:16,040
Bob Langer do you want to add some

912
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:20,140
just to the list of tools techniques
skills that you've found useful?

913
00:50:20,170 --> 00:50:22,140
Sure I agree with what Phil said

914
00:50:22,170 --> 00:50:23,170
I think integrity

915
00:50:23,210 --> 00:50:26,230
I would add to that and I guess
I was saying that myself perseverance

916
00:50:26,260 --> 00:50:30,030
I mean not giving up easily
or not giving up for

917
00:50:30,060 --> 00:50:31,140
you know I- I agree with

918
00:50:31,180 --> 00:50:33,590
you know you could set a timeframe and you

919
00:50:33,620 --> 00:50:36,000
you know just not giving up very easily

920
00:50:36,030 --> 00:50:39,130
I think also you know

921
00:50:39,170 --> 00:50:41,690
I do think-and this relates
to the part of the theme

922
00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:44,170
of this-if you're certainly
doing things in technology

923
00:50:44,210 --> 00:50:50,130
I- I'm trying to think how to say this-
I think it's good to be intelligent

924
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:51,700
you know I think it's probably

925
00:50:51,730 --> 00:50:53,240
yeah I think it's good-yeah

926
00:50:54,270 --> 00:50:55,230
it helps

927
00:50:55,270 --> 00:50:57,260
Compared to the alternative

928
00:50:59,010 --> 00:51:02,090
That's what I was trying
to figure out how to say

929
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:05,020
And- and I think it it's
you know in other words

930
00:51:05,060 --> 00:51:07,130
if you're going to be
making decisions that affect

931
00:51:07,170 --> 00:51:09,210
you know that are somewhat
based on technology-and

932
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:11,190
so much is-it's important
to understand it

933
00:51:11,230 --> 00:51:14,070
it's important to be smart enough
to figure those things out

934
00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:15,180
to have some background in it

935
00:51:15,220 --> 00:51:19,010
So I think that if you're a leader in-
in that kind of context

936
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,050
I think that
intelligence and understanding

937
00:51:22,090 --> 00:51:25,070
having an understanding
of technology is-

938
00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:26,060
is important as well

939
00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:28,110
So I would maybe add some of
those things that I just said

940
00:51:28,140 --> 00:51:29,140
Yeah well This-

941
00:51:29,180 --> 00:51:31,090
Probably could be said better
than what I said

942
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,060
but¡K No

943
00:51:33,100 --> 00:51:34,170
not- but the core question here is

944
00:51:34,210 --> 00:51:39,110
what difference leadership is in
a technological age or technological world

945
00:51:39,140 --> 00:51:40,220
So you're saying just

946
00:51:40,260 --> 00:51:44,270
to be able- you have to you
have to have that expertise

947
00:51:44,300 --> 00:51:47,290
if you're working in
a technological context

948
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,000
Not only to be smart

949
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,100
but to be knowledgeable about-

950
00:51:51,130 --> 00:51:51,970
Yeah well

951
00:51:52,010 --> 00:51:53,140
though I think people can learn it

952
00:51:53,170 --> 00:51:54,040
I've seen

953
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:58,110
see- I've seen- that's why
the smart thing is important

954
00:51:58,140 --> 00:51:58,970
you know

955
00:51:59,010 --> 00:52:00,980
and I've watched companies
I've been involved with

956
00:52:01,020 --> 00:52:05,120
I've seen CEOs who don't have what
I'd call significant technical background

957
00:52:05,150 --> 00:52:09,260
But they're smart enough that
they can even read scientific things

958
00:52:09,290 --> 00:52:12,050
or listen to scientific things
and they pick it up

959
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:13,080
I mean

960
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:14,070
so do you want to-

961
00:52:14,100 --> 00:52:14,980
- Go ahead
- No

962
00:52:15,020 --> 00:52:18,090
I think one of the the-
the just following on this

963
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,600
which I think is a very important issue

964
00:52:20,630 --> 00:52:23,080
One of the things that I find among people

965
00:52:23,110 --> 00:52:25,080
who are very successful leaders

966
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,240
is that they can identify in
other people

967
00:52:29,220 --> 00:52:33,160
sources of strengt
and power and knowledge

968
00:52:33,190 --> 00:52:36,290
that then they use in leadership

969
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,020
Right

970
00:52:38,060 --> 00:52:43,150
So it isn't that you have to be
an expert in a field to be a leader

971
00:52:43,180 --> 00:52:47,170
in the field as a CEO of
a biotech company or anything else

972
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,290
But if you have no interest in the technology

973
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,150
no inherent curiosity about the technology

974
00:52:54,180 --> 00:52:58,030
and not able to relate to others

975
00:52:58,070 --> 00:53:01,260
who are developing the technology
and advancing the technology

976
00:53:01,290 --> 00:53:02,980
then I think

977
00:53:03,020 --> 00:53:04,250
A it's not a lot of fun

978
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:05,990
And B

979
00:53:06,030 --> 00:53:07,190
you're missing a lot of the fun

980
00:53:07,220 --> 00:53:08,140
Miss the joy Yeah

981
00:53:08,170 --> 00:53:09,060
Yeah All right

982
00:53:09,090 --> 00:53:09,980
And B

983
00:53:10,020 --> 00:53:11,160
I think it's very hard to be successful

984
00:53:11,190 --> 00:53:12,060
Yeah Yeah

985
00:53:12,100 --> 00:53:14,170
So you don't have to be an expert in

986
00:53:14,210 --> 00:53:18,110
you know nanotechnology to
run a nanotechnology company

987
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:22,070
but you have to have taste in people
who do know something about it

988
00:53:22,100 --> 00:53:25,100
and you have to have
an inherent curiosity

989
00:53:25,140 --> 00:53:28,640
Not the curiosity to create
and move the field

990
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:32,150
but a curiosity to read inform
learn a vocabulary

991
00:53:32,180 --> 00:53:35,030
gossip about it- I mean there was-no

992
00:53:35,070 --> 00:53:40,240
the great- in Crick's autobiography-
this is Francis Crick of Watson and Crick

993
00:53:40,270 --> 00:53:42,660
discovery of DNA-he was a physicist

994
00:53:42,690 --> 00:53:45,010
he had just come out of World War II

995
00:53:45,050 --> 00:53:49,030
and he was trying to decide what he
was going to do with the rest of his life

996
00:53:49,060 --> 00:53:52,090
And he then developed the gossip test

997
00:53:52,130 --> 00:53:54,660
If I guy was sufficiently
interested in something

998
00:53:54,700 --> 00:53:57,160
that I would stand in
the hall and gossip about it

999
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:01,180
just trying to find somebody can
tell me something new about it

1000
00:54:01,210 --> 00:54:03,200
then that's what I should be doing

1001
00:54:03,230 --> 00:54:04,170
Well in essence

1002
00:54:04,210 --> 00:54:10,010
somebody who's curious about the
technology will talk to people about it

1003
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:14,660
try to to draw out what their
thoughts are about the technology

1004
00:54:14,690 --> 00:54:19,280
So I think the ability to use others
and to trust them and to

1005
00:54:19,310 --> 00:54:20,160
you know

1006
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:25,060
gain the information from them is a
very important part of being successful

1007
00:54:25,090 --> 00:54:29,180
At MIT's mid-century convocation 1950

1008
00:54:29,210 --> 00:54:30,060
there's a-

1009
00:54:30,100 --> 00:54:31,110
there's a phrase that was used

1010
00:54:31,150 --> 00:54:34,140
a lot about having
a taste for the first rate

1011
00:54:34,180 --> 00:54:37,140
and that's what MIT
students needed to learn

1012
00:54:37,170 --> 00:54:39,170
The word "taste" you know

1013
00:54:39,210 --> 00:54:42,240
is not one we hear
a lot around here but-

1014
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:47,250
but you're both emphasizing more
than knowing everything yourself

1015
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,640
having a taste for the interesting problems

1016
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:54,010
and the people who
are good at those problems

1017
00:54:54,170 --> 00:54:57,140
But you do venture capital
that's what it's all about

1018
00:54:57,170 --> 00:55:00,090
Well "taste" is a word
like the word "magic"

1019
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,180
It- there's no formulas for it

1020
00:55:03,220 --> 00:55:06,070
so it's- some people
have it and some don't

1021
00:55:06,110 --> 00:55:09,050
So could that be taught as
an element of leadership?

1022
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:10,990
You're implying no
you have it or-

1023
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:14,170
Well I think we use the word taste
when we don't have an explanation

1024
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:15,990
Okay so-

1025
00:55:16,030 --> 00:55:18,030
so put on the agenda for the center is-

1026
00:55:18,070 --> 00:55:22,290
is finding a way to make more precise
and clear what we mean by taste

1027
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:23,990
Taste in people there's-

1028
00:55:24,030 --> 00:55:27,010
there are people
with bad taste in software

1029
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:28,160
who just have-

1030
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:29,700
We are not going to go there

1031
00:55:29,740 --> 00:55:31,170
No what I meant was they-

1032
00:55:31,210 --> 00:55:33,170
they don't have good taste
in the design of software

1033
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:35,720
so their software ends up
not being very good

1034
00:55:35,750 --> 00:55:37,920
But it's very hard to
figure out in advance

1035
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,050
You just know this
person has good taste

1036
00:55:40,090 --> 00:55:42,090
and this one doesn't
and I don't know why

1037
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,090
maybe the center
could figure that one out

1038
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:45,140
Yeah okay

1039
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,010
See I just don't want to name names

1040
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:49,100
that's all

1041
00:55:49,230 --> 00:55:53,090
Okay So back to our list of-

1042
00:55:53,130 --> 00:55:55,260
if you if you were
organizing this center

1043
00:55:55,290 --> 00:55:58,010
and writing the curriculum you know

1044
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:04,020
what else would you-
what else would you add to the list?

1045
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:10,190
I think breadth is a very
important component in a good leader

1046
00:56:10,220 --> 00:56:13,080
Someone who not only you know

1047
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,170
is interested in what
they're doing from day to day

1048
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,120
but have a- has a broad interest in

1049
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:24,160
what's going on in related areas
and related business and social issues

1050
00:56:24,190 --> 00:56:27,210
I think if you're going to
make strategic decisions

1051
00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:30,000
that have very long timelines

1052
00:56:30,030 --> 00:56:31,120
which is what you know

1053
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,590
as a head of an
organization you have to do

1054
00:56:34,620 --> 00:56:37,980
having a breadth of
vision and a commitment

1055
00:56:38,020 --> 00:56:43,000
to actually keeping informed over
that sort of broad perspective is-

1056
00:56:43,030 --> 00:56:45,250
is an important component

1057
00:56:45,290 --> 00:56:48,280
Yeah breadth versus
depth is a false dichotomy

1058
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,240
And you- people are constantly
trying to choose

1059
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:55,040
whether they're going to be broad
or know one thing very well

1060
00:56:55,070 --> 00:56:57,000
and I've found that that's not a choice

1061
00:56:57,030 --> 00:56:58,140
That's not a real choice

1062
00:56:58,180 --> 00:57:02,160
Breadth is important even
when you're deep in something

1063
00:57:04,060 --> 00:57:08,050
I thought for sure you were
going to bring up writing skills

1064
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:11,000
or communication skills ere now

1065
00:57:12,190 --> 00:57:13,050
Yes

1066
00:57:13,090 --> 00:57:14,200
That's a cue

1067
00:57:17,110 --> 00:57:21,240
But I'd be interested also in whether
you would agree or- or not whether

1068
00:57:22,140 --> 00:57:25,030
you know leadership
and communication is that

1069
00:57:25,140 --> 00:57:26,190
in a technical age

1070
00:57:26,230 --> 00:57:29,050
is that all that important

1071
00:57:29,260 --> 00:57:31,170
It's all important

1072
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,080
Well I knew I knew¡K

1073
00:57:33,270 --> 00:57:34,970
You need to know how to listen

1074
00:57:35,010 --> 00:57:37,250
You need to know how to speak and
you need to know how to write

1075
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:40,020
You need to know how to use PowerPoint

1076
00:57:40,060 --> 00:57:45,120
You- communication's very-
it's part of schmoozing is part of-

1077
00:57:45,150 --> 00:57:46,290
and part of schmoozing is listening

1078
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,060
not just speaking

1079
00:57:48,090 --> 00:57:48,960
Yes

1080
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,250
It's amazing how many people talk
to you in a schmoozing situation

1081
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,220
and they don't hear anything
that you're saying

1082
00:57:53,250 --> 00:57:56,080
and you wonder why bother listening

1083
00:57:56,110 --> 00:57:57,100
Yeah because the-

1084
00:57:57,140 --> 00:57:59,060
But writing- you're a professor
of writing aren't you?

1085
00:57:59,090 --> 00:58:00,240
Yeah I notice Yeah

1086
00:58:03,220 --> 00:58:05,230
and I have a name attached to that

1087
00:58:06,030 --> 00:58:06,960
Enterprise

1088
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,540
No but I- between speaking
and writing or other-

1089
00:58:10,570 --> 00:58:14,040
I mean there are other
forms of communication

1090
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:17,180
like small group meetings
that aren't quite presentations

1091
00:58:17,210 --> 00:58:18,960
they aren't writing either-I-

1092
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:23,040
I'm just interested in
whether you feel they're crucial

1093
00:58:23,070 --> 00:58:24,180
okay but not crucial

1094
00:58:24,220 --> 00:58:26,240
I mean I honestly can think of people

1095
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:31,030
I would describe as leaders who
are not certainly great speakers

1096
00:58:32,270 --> 00:58:37,130
I've known leaders who are not great speakers
but who have a tremendous vision

1097
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:38,200
They're able to say the-

1098
00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:40,090
ten words that-

1099
00:58:40,220 --> 00:58:42,100
that affect leadership

1100
00:58:42,130 --> 00:58:42,990
I mean

1101
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:46,120
and in fact many cases
you will find individuals

1102
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:52,180
who are the initial entrepreneur
who created a company who had a vision

1103
00:58:52,210 --> 00:58:57,000
who then rode the vision and
may not be as articulate as-

1104
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:01,110
as people who are running
a large organization of 10000 people

1105
00:59:01,140 --> 00:59:02,170
I mean it's-so

1106
00:59:02,210 --> 00:59:08,110
I- I think communication is
a terribly important part of the mix

1107
00:59:08,140 --> 00:59:10,130
but there are other things in that mix

1108
00:59:10,170 --> 00:59:14,070
Yeah And-you- and it's something
that that we tend to-

1109
00:59:14,110 --> 00:59:18,260
I think people in a social organization
teaching educationally-

1110
00:59:18,290 --> 00:59:23,000
we tend to not
at least acknowledge is there

1111
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:25,510
There are people who are not articulate

1112
00:59:25,550 --> 00:59:28,000
who aren't interested in networking

1113
00:59:28,030 --> 00:59:30,000
who aren't interested

1114
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,100
in a lot of things but have incredible

1115
00:59:33,140 --> 00:59:36,130
taste and depth
and penetrating insight

1116
00:59:36,170 --> 00:59:40,100
And you've got to learn
how to use those people too

1117
00:59:40,130 --> 00:59:43,160
So in an organization
it's really hard

1118
00:59:43,190 --> 00:59:46,150
because you've got to motivate your leaders

1119
00:59:46,190 --> 00:59:51,070
and your managers and the whole
organization to achieve a function

1120
00:59:51,100 --> 00:59:53,290
You promote based on how people can-

1121
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,040
can contribute to that

1122
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:00,220
And yet in a technology organization
you can have individuals

1123
01:00:00,250 --> 01:00:03,190
who are absolutely critical
for the next twenty years

1124
01:00:03,230 --> 01:00:07,230
of the organization and you've
got to motivate them reward them

1125
01:00:07,260 --> 01:00:11,200
at the same time for
a whole set of different parameters

1126
01:00:11,230 --> 01:00:13,110
and reasons that you're- you're-

1127
01:00:13,150 --> 01:00:16,150
you're rewarding people
in a high management position

1128
01:00:16,190 --> 01:00:21,260
So it is a really complicated set of-
of things you have to balance

1129
01:00:21,290 --> 01:00:25,000
Oh communication is not glibness

1130
01:00:25,030 --> 01:00:25,220
okay

1131
01:00:25,260 --> 01:00:27,250
and-and- should not be confused and-

1132
01:00:27,290 --> 01:00:32,090
and again you keep coming back
to the vision or the direction

1133
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:40,070
In the Sloan leadership research there's been
a lot of emphasis on distributed leadership

1134
01:00:40,100 --> 01:00:43,040
So I'd like to ask you

1135
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:46,040
I mean you're getting
at this question of

1136
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:48,970
who else in the organization is a leader

1137
01:00:49,010 --> 01:00:53,110
and how do you develop
leadership on all levels and all-

1138
01:00:53,140 --> 01:00:55,120
see the minute you
start talking about levels

1139
01:00:55,150 --> 01:00:56,280
I'm probably getting off base here-

1140
01:00:56,310 --> 01:01:00,200
so again I- I'd

1141
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,110
well let's turn to you Bob

1142
01:01:02,150 --> 01:01:05,210
And just in your organizations
that you've worked with

1143
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,090
whether it's lab or business

1144
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:13,230
does the idea of distributed leadership
make sense in those contexts?

1145
01:01:13,260 --> 01:01:15,000
Have you had experience with that

1146
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:19,150
where you can name leaders
who are you know on-on-

1147
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:23,140
in parts of the organization where
you might not typically look for leaders?

1148
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:24,230
Well

1149
01:01:24,270 --> 01:01:27,070
so in the academic area

1150
01:01:27,100 --> 01:01:27,210
I mean

1151
01:01:27,250 --> 01:01:29,070
you know even if I look at our lab

1152
01:01:29,100 --> 01:01:30,000
which is a fairly big lab

1153
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:33,530
I think people you know
show leadership in different ways

1154
01:01:33,570 --> 01:01:37,030
you know But I think it still-
I think the person at the top

1155
01:01:37,060 --> 01:01:39,090
you know whether it's
an academic lab or a company

1156
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,590
just plays such a central role

1157
01:01:41,620 --> 01:01:43,400
So you know and I think that they

1158
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:45,140
you know they set a lot of things

1159
01:01:45,180 --> 01:01:48,190
But I think that sure at companies
that I'm involved with

1160
01:01:48,220 --> 01:01:51,220
I think you see leadership
at- at- at many levels

1161
01:01:51,260 --> 01:01:54,190
And of course part of
what's important and I think

1162
01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:57,260
what people look for even at
the companies are succession

1163
01:01:57,290 --> 01:01:59,210
I mean you have to have ways to

1164
01:01:59,250 --> 01:02:01,210
you know move people
like what Bob was saying

1165
01:02:01,250 --> 01:02:04,270
he moved up the ladder and
you know eventually started a company

1166
01:02:04,300 --> 01:02:07,180
I mean so I think that that there's-yeah

1167
01:02:07,220 --> 01:02:12,120
I think you see leadership at- at-
at multiple levels in- in organizations

1168
01:02:12,150 --> 01:02:15,250
What kind of responsibilities
do you delegate?

1169
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:19,250
Wow I delegate a lot

1170
01:02:19,290 --> 01:02:21,220
but I also look over people's shoulder

1171
01:02:21,250 --> 01:02:23,120
So I-

1172
01:02:23,220 --> 01:02:24,130
but I-I-

1173
01:02:24,170 --> 01:02:25,670
I certainly you know

1174
01:02:25,710 --> 01:02:27,180
I mean if I look at-

1175
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:29,120
I could break
it up into two categories-

1176
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,110
what I do in the lab
and what I do in companies-

1177
01:02:31,140 --> 01:02:33,100
maybe I'll do the the company thing first

1178
01:02:33,140 --> 01:02:35,190
Companies what I've been
involved in is sort of

1179
01:02:35,220 --> 01:02:38,040
I've had this vision or this invention

1180
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:42,110
and I want to make it go farther
than it just went in the laboratory

1181
01:02:42,140 --> 01:02:45,060
And to me that's a partnership between me

1182
01:02:45,090 --> 01:02:47,080
venture capitalists and

1183
01:02:47,110 --> 01:02:47,240
you know

1184
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:51,000
some maybe some of my students who
worked on the project in the laboratory

1185
01:02:51,030 --> 01:02:52,530
that want to start the company

1186
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:53,990
people we're going to hire

1187
01:02:54,030 --> 01:02:55,280
So I mean I delegate an awful lot

1188
01:02:55,310 --> 01:02:57,250
I- I want it to win

1189
01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:59,220
I want it to succeed

1190
01:02:59,260 --> 01:03:01,170
But I realize that

1191
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:02,030
you know

1192
01:03:02,070 --> 01:03:05,090
I- I view myself as you know
not a great businessperson

1193
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:06,120
I'm okay

1194
01:03:06,150 --> 01:03:07,090
but you know

1195
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:07,990
but I'm you know

1196
01:03:08,030 --> 01:03:10,170
I'm a much better scientist probably
than I'm a businessperson

1197
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:11,140
And so if you know

1198
01:03:11,180 --> 01:03:15,090
I'm not going to know how to you know
make deals with whoever it is

1199
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,060
you know and I'm also not a lawyer

1200
01:03:17,100 --> 01:03:19,150
you know so you have to delegate
a lot of different things

1201
01:03:19,180 --> 01:03:21,600
if you're going to
make something like that succeed

1202
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:23,990
In the lab I kind of do it
for a different reason

1203
01:03:24,030 --> 01:03:28,070
I mean partly it's like again
you come up with ideas but to me

1204
01:03:28,180 --> 01:03:29,730
when you're training students

1205
01:03:29,770 --> 01:03:31,500
to me there's a fine transition

1206
01:03:31,540 --> 01:03:33,280
and maybe this this is important

1207
01:03:33,310 --> 01:03:34,980
To me there's a fine transition

1208
01:03:35,020 --> 01:03:38,130
When I-the way I think about training
graduate students and postdocs-

1209
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,090
I think along the following lines

1210
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,020
When you- when you're a student

1211
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:43,210
all the time when you're in grammar school

1212
01:03:43,250 --> 01:03:46,170
high school and even your
first four years of college

1213
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:50,100
you answer questions
that other people asked you

1214
01:03:50,130 --> 01:03:52,040
You- that's all you do

1215
01:03:52,130 --> 01:03:55,230
But the hallmark of I think people
who've really made a difference

1216
01:03:55,270 --> 01:03:59,110
isn't necessarily that I think it's
the quality of the questions they ask

1217
01:03:59,140 --> 01:04:01,690
And so I try to delegate
a lot with that in mind

1218
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,240
when I look at
graduate students and postdocs

1219
01:04:04,270 --> 01:04:06,230
I want them to make that transition

1220
01:04:06,270 --> 01:04:09,130
from somebody who can answer questions-

1221
01:04:09,170 --> 01:04:11,150
to somebody who can provide answers

1222
01:04:11,190 --> 01:04:13,130
to somebody who can ask questions

1223
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,030
And so I want to do that carefully

1224
01:04:15,070 --> 01:04:18,100
you know by discussions and let them
have more and more independence

1225
01:04:18,130 --> 01:04:19,120
so that they're going to

1226
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,020
when they go out to be a professor themselves

1227
01:04:21,050 --> 01:04:23,060
or start a company or whatever they do

1228
01:04:23,090 --> 01:04:25,070
they're really able to ask big questions

1229
01:04:25,230 --> 01:04:28,100
I- I find this
distinction between leadership

1230
01:04:28,140 --> 01:04:30,240
in the business setting and
leadership in the university

1231
01:04:30,270 --> 01:04:33,120
a very interesting distinction

1232
01:04:33,190 --> 01:04:35,220
In other words you- you play the-

1233
01:04:35,260 --> 01:04:38,000
a different leadership role in those two-

1234
01:04:38,030 --> 01:04:39,120
in those two contexts

1235
01:04:39,150 --> 01:04:39,710
That's true

1236
01:04:39,740 --> 01:04:40,230
So again

1237
01:04:40,270 --> 01:04:43,090
I'd be interested in
asking Phil and I mean

1238
01:04:43,130 --> 01:04:47,130
because you've worked in
many different contexts and-

1239
01:04:48,110 --> 01:04:52,220
and did you feel like you were
playing the same role all the time?

1240
01:04:52,250 --> 01:04:56,190
Or was it explicitly and-

1241
01:04:56,230 --> 01:04:59,070
and you know in your own
mind a different role?

1242
01:05:00,050 --> 01:05:01,000
Yes there are

1243
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:04,020
well you can even see it here
there are many styles of leadership

1244
01:05:04,050 --> 01:05:07,080
different aspects of it
and certainly in the business world

1245
01:05:07,110 --> 01:05:10,070
and the university there's a huge difference

1246
01:05:10,110 --> 01:05:13,180
Usually when the university
is malfunctioning they

1247
01:05:13,210 --> 01:05:14,980
and you give them advice

1248
01:05:15,020 --> 01:05:17,290
they explain to you how well
we do things differently

1249
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:21,110
Here at the university
we malfunction regularly

1250
01:05:24,030 --> 01:05:28,050
Plus there's various of us succeed or fail
differently in different environments

1251
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:31,270
I'm not really good at delegating
because I want to do everything

1252
01:05:31,300 --> 01:05:33,280
and I forget to follow up

1253
01:05:35,170 --> 01:05:37,220
so maybe you sound like you're
much better at delegating

1254
01:05:37,250 --> 01:05:39,040
I don't know Well

1255
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:44,120
the ultimate working as a team
is being a department chair at MIT

1256
01:05:44,210 --> 01:05:47,210
I mean if you're a department chair with faculty

1257
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,210
you have absolute power
as long as you never use it

1258
01:05:52,230 --> 01:05:53,240
So¡K

1259
01:05:53,270 --> 01:05:54,210
Right

1260
01:05:54,250 --> 01:05:55,760
Yeah but if you try watch out

1261
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:57,280
Well you try you're out of there

1262
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:00,000
You have no more credibility

1263
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:07,210
So you have to work by maintaining
a relationship with almost every-

1264
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,060
everyone on the faculty

1265
01:06:10,020 --> 01:06:12,960
You've got to try to find settings in

1266
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:17,030
which you can express interest
in them in their work

1267
01:06:17,060 --> 01:06:19,090
and then you've got to
be able to motivate them

1268
01:06:19,130 --> 01:06:24,180
by setting a vision as to what
you want to achieve as a group

1269
01:06:24,210 --> 01:06:27,110
getting them to buy in and then getting them

1270
01:06:27,150 --> 01:06:31,010
to buy in to such a degree
that they may even be willing

1271
01:06:31,050 --> 01:06:35,160
to forgo some of their own self
interest to make a contribution to

1272
01:06:35,190 --> 01:06:36,240
that common goal

1273
01:06:36,270 --> 01:06:38,160
And that

1274
01:06:38,230 --> 01:06:39,160
I mean

1275
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:40,240
and these individuals

1276
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:41,740
as they have to be

1277
01:06:41,780 --> 01:06:43,170
because we want chaos

1278
01:06:43,210 --> 01:06:45,990
we don't want one vision among our faculty

1279
01:06:46,030 --> 01:06:48,160
because without the debate there's no creativity

1280
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:53,150
and we've we create an
environment for maximal creativity

1281
01:06:53,180 --> 01:06:54,100
You know

1282
01:06:54,140 --> 01:06:56,200
you've got to have those
relationships and-

1283
01:06:56,240 --> 01:07:00,230
and listen try to achieve within
the realm of what's possible

1284
01:07:01,020 --> 01:07:03,040
And then you wait if- if that doesn't work

1285
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:05,230
then the whole thing has
to collapse and you rebuild

1286
01:07:05,260 --> 01:07:06,730
There's- there's the difference

1287
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:08,160
you just- I never realized it

1288
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:12,160
In a in a business setting you have
the team whose goal is to say

1289
01:07:12,190 --> 01:07:13,980
produce the product

1290
01:07:14,020 --> 01:07:16,220
but in the university
the product is the team

1291
01:07:16,250 --> 01:07:17,200
It is

1292
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:18,120
Oh

1293
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:19,250
It is mostly the team

1294
01:07:19,290 --> 01:07:21,170
Universities produce people so-

1295
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:22,030
Yeah

1296
01:07:22,070 --> 01:07:24,140
education is the outcome

1297
01:07:24,180 --> 01:07:26,220
But also this creative chaos

1298
01:07:26,250 --> 01:07:28,010
I was thinking is

1299
01:07:28,050 --> 01:07:31,000
I- I'm not sure a business
organization could readily tolerate

1300
01:07:31,030 --> 01:07:32,530
that because that's you know

1301
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:34,030
it's got a different goal

1302
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:36,050
In the backroom

1303
01:07:36,090 --> 01:07:37,120
In the- in the backroom

1304
01:07:37,150 --> 01:07:37,980
Yeah

1305
01:07:38,020 --> 01:07:40,120
Creative chaos can be very valuable

1306
01:07:40,150 --> 01:07:40,980
You know

1307
01:07:41,020 --> 01:07:43,020
this might-
how much time do we have left?

1308
01:07:43,050 --> 01:07:44,090
I'm just trying to¡K

1309
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:45,140
Seventeen minutes

1310
01:07:45,170 --> 01:07:46,000
Okay

1311
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:46,170
Should open

1312
01:07:46,210 --> 01:07:48,080
Because I do want to open for questions

1313
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,180
I mean this seems like
a wonderful point to-

1314
01:07:50,210 --> 01:07:52,050
to do that with

1315
01:07:52,090 --> 01:07:55,020
So you know I'd like the questions

1316
01:07:55,050 --> 01:07:56,130
I'd like to-

1317
01:07:56,170 --> 01:07:58,240
to have them not entirely scattershot

1318
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,160
but if there's a
thread to follow the thread

1319
01:08:01,190 --> 01:08:03,150
But you know

1320
01:08:03,190 --> 01:08:06,240
let's get started please

1321
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:09,120
do you think leadership is

1322
01:08:09,150 --> 01:08:10,240
Repeat the question

1323
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:11,250
do you
think that leadership

1324
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,220
is different depending on the function

1325
01:08:13,260 --> 01:08:15,730
for example if
in a company like three

1326
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,200
com would it
be the same in R and D

1327
01:08:18,230 --> 01:08:19,180
and the same in sales

1328
01:08:19,220 --> 01:08:20,240
and the same in manufacturing

1329
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:22,210
could you take those people
and switch them

1330
01:08:22,250 --> 01:08:26,030
and effectively to make
the other <unintelligible> situation?

1331
01:08:26,060 --> 01:08:26,180
We're-

1332
01:08:26,220 --> 01:08:27,970
I'm going to exert some leadership

1333
01:08:28,010 --> 01:08:31,050
Yeah I was just going to
say to to repeat the question

1334
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:32,230
and make sure everybody's hearing it

1335
01:08:32,260 --> 01:08:33,080
Thank you

1336
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:35,030
So the question was are there say

1337
01:08:35,070 --> 01:08:37,160
in a company where you have manufacturing

1338
01:08:37,190 --> 01:08:39,250
and engineering and sales are the skills of-

1339
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:41,690
are the people interchangeable

1340
01:08:41,730 --> 01:08:44,110
are the skills fungible of leaders

1341
01:08:44,140 --> 01:08:45,260
And I think not

1342
01:08:46,030 --> 01:08:50,100
I- in particular a salespeople
are a different form of life

1343
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:58,100
and one often disrespected
by engineers to their detriment

1344
01:08:58,270 --> 01:09:01,280
But they're not the- the fact
that they're extremely-the salespeople

1345
01:09:01,310 --> 01:09:04,070
for example-are extremely
valuable and important

1346
01:09:04,100 --> 01:09:05,990
that doesn't make them the same

1347
01:09:06,030 --> 01:09:08,090
And I don't think they are
nearly the same as engineers

1348
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:09,230
There's a whole different

1349
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:12,100
ecology in sales than in engineering

1350
01:09:12,130 --> 01:09:14,200
So different kinds of leadership

1351
01:09:14,230 --> 01:09:16,100
I guess the the-the-

1352
01:09:16,140 --> 01:09:19,210
the technical grasp leader tends

1353
01:09:19,250 --> 01:09:22,070
to be more effective
in an engineering department

1354
01:09:22,110 --> 01:09:26,610
and the schmoozing communicating
leadership style tends to be-

1355
01:09:26,650 --> 01:09:31,120
I'm really making this up-
but tends to be more effective in the

1356
01:09:31,150 --> 01:09:33,170
say sales context

1357
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:34,240
Yeah I-

1358
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:36,060
But- but that's research

1359
01:09:36,100 --> 01:09:39,100
One can research this
This could be a research question

1360
01:09:39,130 --> 01:09:40,230
Really For the leadership center

1361
01:09:40,270 --> 01:09:43,060
was that addressed primarily
to Bob or only to Bob?

1362
01:09:43,090 --> 01:09:43,250
Anybody

1363
01:09:43,290 --> 01:09:47,150
No but I- I think Bob
has a lot more experience in

1364
01:09:47,180 --> 01:09:50,970
in the diversity of
those operations than I do

1365
01:09:51,010 --> 01:09:54,140
I've never had a sales
organization report to me Bob

1366
01:09:55,130 --> 01:09:57,030
I can guarantee you

1367
01:09:57,210 --> 01:09:59,050
That explains a lot

1368
01:10:03,190 --> 01:10:04,250
Probably does

1369
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:09,110
Any any more questions on¡K? Yes

1370
01:10:09,140 --> 01:10:10,040
in the back there

1371
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,050
Can you use a mike or or get¡K?

1372
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:14,020
Yeah somebody if somebody can-

1373
01:10:14,050 --> 01:10:15,100
Maybe somebody can move-

1374
01:10:15,140 --> 01:10:16,220
Around with a mike it would-

1375
01:10:16,260 --> 01:10:18,140
Well if the- you can move to the mike

1376
01:10:18,170 --> 01:10:19,140
it'd be great

1377
01:10:21,180 --> 01:10:22,180
This better?

1378
01:10:22,210 --> 01:10:23,140
Yes Yes Yes

1379
01:10:23,180 --> 01:10:25,960
Back when I was a student here at Sloan

1380
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:30,280
we were very good at teaching
the science of management

1381
01:10:30,310 --> 01:10:33,100
But myself and maybe a few others

1382
01:10:33,140 --> 01:10:36,180
always wish we were a little
bit better at teaching the art

1383
01:10:36,210 --> 01:10:37,220
of management before

1384
01:10:37,260 --> 01:10:41,170
we were shoved out the door
to be torn apart by politics

1385
01:10:42,270 --> 01:10:45,770
and I guess all the things that
Bob was indicating earlier that you-

1386
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:49,270
you get body blocks and insults
and as you try to change the world

1387
01:10:51,060 --> 01:10:53,090
How- how do you do that?

1388
01:10:54,070 --> 01:10:58,000
How do you teach the art
of management to students here?

1389
01:10:59,270 --> 01:11:02,020
That's an excellent-
that's an excellent question

1390
01:11:02,050 --> 01:11:03,160
I'll let you answer it

1391
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:06,060
Let Bob answer it

1392
01:11:06,100 --> 01:11:10,220
I'm a graduate of the Sloan school
of management and speak with authority

1393
01:11:11,110 --> 01:11:14,260
When- I think the reason
that the leadership center

1394
01:11:14,290 --> 01:11:16,170
is being created is such a good idea

1395
01:11:16,210 --> 01:11:18,270
and I know a lot of
alums think it's a good idea

1396
01:11:18,300 --> 01:11:21,020
is because we believe leadership is

1397
01:11:21,060 --> 01:11:24,600
the ensemble of qualities
lacking in MIT graduates

1398
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:28,150
that relegates them to
working for Harvard graduates

1399
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:30,190
So if we could just-

1400
01:11:32,030 --> 01:11:34,230
if we could just figure out
that art you were talking about

1401
01:11:34,260 --> 01:11:36,260
then there wouldn't be
so many Harvard people

1402
01:11:36,290 --> 01:11:38,190
in positions of authority

1403
01:11:42,070 --> 01:11:46,150
You know again "art"
is a word like "taste"

1404
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:51,090
that you really can look at it
in a more rigorous way

1405
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:52,670
And I

1406
01:11:52,700 --> 01:11:54,180
you know

1407
01:11:54,220 --> 01:11:56,160
you mentioned sports a long time ago

1408
01:11:56,200 --> 01:12:01,150
and I- I'm seeing two members of the of
the athletics department in in the crowd

1409
01:12:01,180 --> 01:12:05,040
and I just- I would
like to say for example

1410
01:12:05,070 --> 01:12:06,180
I think that is one way

1411
01:12:06,220 --> 01:12:09,170
that a lot of people have
learned leadership

1412
01:12:09,210 --> 01:12:13,250
and we should not you know
that's not an offhand remark

1413
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:15,280
I think that's very important

1414
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:17,250
I think there are social settings

1415
01:12:17,290 --> 01:12:20,170
where people find themselves very informally

1416
01:12:20,210 --> 01:12:23,160
but they have to take on a leadership role

1417
01:12:23,190 --> 01:12:26,110
Those settings often are related to athletics

1418
01:12:26,140 --> 01:12:29,180
So arts can be learned

1419
01:12:29,210 --> 01:12:31,050
all right

1420
01:12:31,110 --> 01:12:34,100
I- I think people have more or less talent

1421
01:12:34,130 --> 01:12:35,160
you're more or less smart

1422
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:40,220
but I think practice is
you've got to get in those settings

1423
01:12:40,250 --> 01:12:41,240
learn a set of skills

1424
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:45,010
take it to another setting
and keep honing them

1425
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:46,130
I think it's sequential

1426
01:12:46,170 --> 01:12:48,970
You don't- you know it's
just not a big blob

1427
01:12:49,010 --> 01:12:53,190
I think there are particular skills
like learning that in meetings

1428
01:12:53,220 --> 01:12:55,070
if a question is asked

1429
01:12:55,110 --> 01:12:57,010
you make sure that everybody could

1430
01:12:57,040 --> 01:12:58,120
you know hear the question

1431
01:12:58,150 --> 01:12:59,030
I mean just your-

1432
01:12:59,070 --> 01:13:01,020
your gesture of making sure-

1433
01:13:01,050 --> 01:13:01,250
that's some-

1434
01:13:01,290 --> 01:13:03,220
you learn that
somewhere along the line

1435
01:13:03,260 --> 01:13:08,020
But it it's by being in a lot of meetings
that you learn how to be in meetings

1436
01:13:09,140 --> 01:13:10,180
I was going to say

1437
01:13:10,220 --> 01:13:11,610
I don't know whether-

1438
01:13:11,650 --> 01:13:12,970
I- I agree with that

1439
01:13:13,010 --> 01:13:14,140
If you run meetings you'll-

1440
01:13:14,170 --> 01:13:15,190
it'll-

1441
01:13:16,030 --> 01:13:17,120
<unintelligible> is there another¡K?

1442
01:13:21,010 --> 01:13:24,090
...interested in your remark

1443
01:13:24,130 --> 01:13:27,180
I think that you that both...

1444
01:13:27,210 --> 01:13:29,270
Or- yeah

1445
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:39,100
Developing skills in leadership in
delegation of authority and things like that

1446
01:13:39,130 --> 01:13:46,050
but in my practical life it depends
a a little bit on the milieu

1447
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:48,970
where you end
up how you apply them

1448
01:13:49,010 --> 01:13:54,040
Leadership can be applied
in very negative ways

1449
01:13:54,180 --> 01:13:58,060
There are a lot of people
that seek leadership to-

1450
01:13:59,050 --> 01:14:00,260
because they love power

1451
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:08,200
or they seek money and are not really
terribly interested in anything else

1452
01:14:10,220 --> 01:14:13,630
As far as delegation of authority

1453
01:14:13,660 --> 01:14:17,000
yes that's a skill that you can learn

1454
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:22,240
but again in practical life
you can't delegate just

1455
01:14:23,020 --> 01:14:23,990
you know

1456
01:14:24,030 --> 01:14:26,140
automatically depends on the skills

1457
01:14:27,010 --> 01:14:33,100
and the talents of the people
that you can delegate to some people

1458
01:14:33,140 --> 01:14:39,200
You can delegate some responsibilities
because they have the talent

1459
01:14:39,270 --> 01:14:41,220
Others you can't

1460
01:14:42,290 --> 01:14:48,170
And then I would be interested in
also your remarks about integrity

1461
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:50,970
because there has been-

1462
01:14:51,010 --> 01:14:54,130
I don't know whether it's the Business Week

1463
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:57,050
or one of the leading weekly magazine

1464
01:14:57,210 --> 01:15:00,200
that about five or six months ago

1465
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:09,020
we published statistics about
integrity in scientific research

1466
01:15:09,130 --> 01:15:11,100
and in various organizations

1467
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:13,250
And to my amazement

1468
01:15:14,030 --> 01:15:17,220
it was reported that for instance NIH

1469
01:15:17,260 --> 01:15:23,150
which is one of our top R and D organizations

1470
01:15:23,220 --> 01:15:27,260
that thirty percent of
the papers published were-

1471
01:15:27,290 --> 01:15:29,180
there was some sort of cheating

1472
01:15:32,090 --> 01:15:33,150
You you¡K

1473
01:15:33,190 --> 01:15:35,290
I- I know the study in-

1474
01:15:37,020 --> 01:15:38,250
I'd like to have your reactions about-

1475
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:41,070
I'll let- we'll let Phil to-

1476
01:15:41,110 --> 01:15:44,100
And also the use-
and also the use of leadership for

1477
01:15:44,130 --> 01:15:45,120
you know

1478
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:46,080
abuse-

1479
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:47,250
Negative purposes

1480
01:15:47,290 --> 01:15:53,230
You know the number of prominent
or at least known businesspeople

1481
01:15:53,260 --> 01:15:57,100
that have been indicted
in the last couple of years

1482
01:15:58,220 --> 01:16:10,260
So you know to teach leadership without
really teaching or connecting it with

1483
01:16:10,290 --> 01:16:14,200
you know social responsibilities
and things like that as we-

1484
01:16:14,230 --> 01:16:17,660
you have been talking about in the last hour

1485
01:16:17,690 --> 01:16:21,090
but in real life it's not always the case

1486
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:22,010
Yeah

1487
01:16:22,050 --> 01:16:25,020
Thank you I- I want to respond to the NIH study

1488
01:16:25,050 --> 01:16:28,160
There was a study reported that-

1489
01:16:28,260 --> 01:16:30,980
the numbers you were using were correct-

1490
01:16:31,020 --> 01:16:34,190
that twenty percent of the respondents had said

1491
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:38,010
as interpreted by this the newspaper

1492
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:41,080
that it was academic

1493
01:16:42,060 --> 01:16:44,100
misconduct in one sense

1494
01:16:44,140 --> 01:16:46,150
If you look underneath that

1495
01:16:46,220 --> 01:16:51,210
they asked the question have you in the past

1496
01:16:52,050 --> 01:16:53,220
something of the order

1497
01:16:53,260 --> 01:16:58,090
ignored the criticisms of a reviewer

1498
01:16:58,130 --> 01:17:06,200
or written your grant so as it would reflect
the interest of the funding agency

1499
01:17:09,100 --> 01:17:12,090
And twenty percent said yes

1500
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:12,250
Sure

1501
01:17:12,290 --> 01:17:17,220
And I don't consider that either
of those academic misconduct

1502
01:17:17,250 --> 01:17:20,740
Underneath that there was
a one or two percent number

1503
01:17:20,770 --> 01:17:24,230
did you know of someone
who had published results

1504
01:17:24,260 --> 01:17:26,280
that they knew were incorrect

1505
01:17:27,060 --> 01:17:29,090
And that is something we're not proud of

1506
01:17:29,130 --> 01:17:33,960
and we try to teach and
and make it apparent to students

1507
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:37,260
and others and members of our
community that that's not acceptable

1508
01:17:38,010 --> 01:17:41,040
So I-I- that twenty percent number is-

1509
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:44,040
is dramatically misleading in my opinion

1510
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:46,200
and you raised it I just wanted to comment on

1511
01:17:46,230 --> 01:17:47,970
I'm sorry but they-

1512
01:17:48,010 --> 01:17:50,100
- they broke it down
- The in- in the-

1513
01:17:50,130 --> 01:17:51,250
The various cheating

1514
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:53,170
Yeah

1515
01:17:53,210 --> 01:17:55,050
False reference

1516
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:56,000
Yeah

1517
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:59,050
It was actually it was three percent

1518
01:17:59,080 --> 01:17:59,220
Okay

1519
01:17:59,260 --> 01:18:03,710
NIH straight cheating
and making up of data

1520
01:18:03,750 --> 01:18:08,170
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that

1521
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:09,230
I'm not proud of it

1522
01:18:09,270 --> 01:18:14,160
And wouldn't necessarily agree with it
in a functional day to day sense

1523
01:18:14,190 --> 01:18:17,120
The question you raise more importantly

1524
01:18:17,150 --> 01:18:19,130
and that is as you point out

1525
01:18:19,170 --> 01:18:24,200
leadership in a can be
used in both a socially negative

1526
01:18:24,230 --> 01:18:27,100
and a socially positive way

1527
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:28,190
is certainly the case

1528
01:18:28,230 --> 01:18:31,240
And- and how one integrates

1529
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:35,060
you know the feeling for or
the understanding of ethics

1530
01:18:35,090 --> 01:18:38,590
and social responsibility
in teaching leadership

1531
01:18:38,630 --> 01:18:42,100
I'm sure is something
that the Sloan program

1532
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:47,080
Is you know working on

1533
01:18:47,190 --> 01:18:49,260
I don't know the details but I-

1534
01:18:49,290 --> 01:18:51,190
I am sure that is the case

1535
01:18:52,060 --> 01:18:54,020
But creating an environment in

1536
01:18:54,060 --> 01:18:57,190
which those types of issues
can be discussed and-

1537
01:18:57,220 --> 01:18:59,160
and shared in a communal interest

1538
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:02,220
and a communal understanding
as to how people feel about

1539
01:19:02,250 --> 01:19:03,970
these things and-

1540
01:19:04,010 --> 01:19:05,160
and social responsibility

1541
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:09,230
I think is an important component
of all educational environments

1542
01:19:09,260 --> 01:19:11,130
not only in the Sloan

1543
01:19:11,170 --> 01:19:15,230
but in other parts of
the university as well

1544
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:25,220
But you're right that there are
misuses of leadership as well

1545
01:19:26,100 --> 01:19:30,290
Do either either of you want
to add a comment to-

1546
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:33,140
I'd like to come down against cheating

1547
01:19:36,100 --> 01:19:38,080
And for positive leadership

1548
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:40,030
But- but- but I the reason

1549
01:19:40,070 --> 01:19:41,160
I think this question is important is

1550
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:44,190
because it gets to the educational methods

1551
01:19:44,220 --> 01:19:45,230
If

1552
01:19:45,260 --> 01:19:46,200
I mean

1553
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:49,220
I- I often have the sense that
people are pretty well formed

1554
01:19:49,250 --> 01:19:52,090
by the time they're in graduate school

1555
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:53,230
or even undergraduate school

1556
01:19:53,270 --> 01:19:58,040
and that there's an ethical compass which

1557
01:19:58,150 --> 01:19:59,680
well I'm not sure it's set

1558
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:01,180
but it's pretty you know

1559
01:20:01,220 --> 01:20:04,290
it's pretty powerfully present or not

1560
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:06,220
So how you teach-

1561
01:20:06,260 --> 01:20:08,080
I mean do you teach people to be good?

1562
01:20:08,110 --> 01:20:09,020
I- you know

1563
01:20:09,060 --> 01:20:12,070
this is the the question about goals
and where you're headed

1564
01:20:12,100 --> 01:20:15,130
what the direction is
what the use of leadership is

1565
01:20:15,210 --> 01:20:16,130
I think that's a-

1566
01:20:16,170 --> 01:20:17,140
I will just say I think

1567
01:20:17,180 --> 01:20:19,040
that's a real educational challenge

1568
01:20:19,070 --> 01:20:20,120
because I'm not sure that

1569
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:24,130
that's as easy to teach as
communication skills or¡K

1570
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:30,060
Oh boy Okay the box is open

1571
01:20:30,180 --> 01:20:31,130
Yes

1572
01:20:31,170 --> 01:20:33,680
Hi my name is Daniel Fung
I'm a second year MBA student

1573
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:36,160
And your last comment was
a lead in into my question

1574
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:40,260
which was "do you think we can teach
leadership in an academic setting?"

1575
01:20:42,180 --> 01:20:44,230
Well I hope so since we're here

1576
01:20:46,130 --> 01:20:50,270
but again let me defer to the panel

1577
01:20:50,300 --> 01:20:51,200
I think so

1578
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:53,230
I- I took a bunch of courses

1579
01:20:54,050 --> 01:20:55,530
I learned- I took a-

1580
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:56,970
a very powerful course

1581
01:20:57,010 --> 01:21:01,230
I took at Xerox sales training
called "managing tasks through people"

1582
01:21:01,260 --> 01:21:04,140
I can remember the entire thing and I-

1583
01:21:04,180 --> 01:21:08,130
it filled me with really
obvious little techniques

1584
01:21:08,170 --> 01:21:12,090
and tools and skills for
managing tasks through people

1585
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:14,210
which is a synonym for leadership I think

1586
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:15,100
No there's-

1587
01:21:15,140 --> 01:21:17,020
you can take courses in it I think

1588
01:21:17,060 --> 01:21:19,610
No I- I would agree
It's like teacher training

1589
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:22,160
I mean we can laugh at it
but there are techniques

1590
01:21:22,190 --> 01:21:25,020
there are skills that
are very useful to know

1591
01:21:25,050 --> 01:21:27,970
I'd also say from my time as dean

1592
01:21:28,010 --> 01:21:31,160
I would say negotiation
and mediation skills

1593
01:21:32,170 --> 01:21:34,130
And- and these can be taught okay

1594
01:21:34,170 --> 01:21:36,150
Some people will be better
some less good

1595
01:21:36,180 --> 01:21:37,190
but you know

1596
01:21:37,230 --> 01:21:39,200
there's a body of knowledge there

1597
01:21:42