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 Sheryl Sandberg 談為何女性領導者太少

Sheryl Sandberg: Why we have too few women leaders

 


 

講者:Sheryl Sandberg

2010年12月演講,2010年12月在TEDWomen上線

 

翻譯:趙弘

編輯:洪曉慧

簡繁轉換:劉契良

後制:趙弘

字幕影片後制:謝旻均

 

影片請按此下載

MAC及手持裝置版本請按此下載

閱讀中文字幕純文字版本

 

關於這場演講

Facebook首席運營長Sheryl Sandberg看到為何達到職業巔峰的女性所占的比例比男性少很多,並為期望達到領導層的女性提供了三條行之有效的建議。

 

關於Sheryl Sandberg

作為Facebook的在任首席運營長,Sheryl Sandberg負責為這個全球最大的社交網站創造財富,同時讓用戶愉快的參與其中。

 

為何要聽她演講:

在Sheryl Sandberg於2008年離開Google,加入Facebook作為首席運營長之前,她是粉絲之一。如今她掌管著Facebook的銷售、市場、商業發展、人力資源、公共政策以及通訊。這是個繁雜的工作,卻很適合Sandberg,她不僅成功建立和管理Google線上銷售和運營計畫,還是世界銀行的經濟學家以及美國財政部的高級官員。

 

Sandberg與Facebook創始人Mark Zuckerberg致力於幫助Facebook用戶控制隱私,和設法利用其最有價值的資產—資料來創造財富,並在之間取得一個平衡點。她在國際經濟學這個複雜、對社會敏感的領域中獲得的經驗顯得很有幫助。

 

「不管稱其為『擴大公司規模』或是『實現飛速發展』,Sandberg都是少數出眾的管理者之一,知道如何能將計劃實現。很明顯地,她正是Zuckerberg需要的人」。

—出自《Vogue》雜誌,2010年5月

 

Sheryl Sandberg的英語網上資料

主頁: facebook.com/sheryl

 

 

[TED科技‧娛樂‧設計]

已有中譯字幕的TED影片目錄(繁體)(簡體)。請注意繁簡目錄是不一樣的。

 

Sheryl Sandberg 談為何女性領導者太少

 

對於今天在座的各位,我們首先要承認自己很幸運。我們沒有生在我們母親或是祖母那個時代,當時女性的職業選擇非常有限。而你們今天能坐在這裡,說明我們大多數人都擁有基本的公民權利。令人驚訝的是,現今世界,仍有一些女性得不到這些權利。但撇開這些不談,我們還面臨一個問題,是個真正的問題。問題如下,女性無法做到任何職業的高層,世界各地都如此。資料清楚的說明了一切,190位國家元首,只有9位女性;世界各國的議會成員,女性只占13%。在企業部門,女性作為領導者,如部門主管、公司董事,至多只有15%、16%。這一數字自2002年來沒有變動,並有下降的趨勢。即便是在非盈利領域,有時我們認為這一領域會有更多的女性領導者,女性領導者的比例:20%。

我們還面臨另一個問題,就是女性在職業和家庭之間面臨更艱難的選擇。美國近期研究表明,已婚的高層管理人員之中,2/3的已婚男性有孩子,而只有1/3的已婚女性有孩子。幾年前,我在紐約談一筆生意。我坐在紐約這間華麗的私募基金公司辦公室中,你們想像得到。在會議中,一個長達3小時的會議。2小時過後,因為人的生理需求需要休息一會兒。所有人都站起來,會議的舉辦者看上去有些尷尬。我意識到,他不知道辦公室的女廁所在哪裡。於是我開始找搬運箱所在,以確定他們剛搬進來。但沒找到,於是我問,「你們是不是剛搬進這間辦公室?」他回答,「不,我們搬進來有一年了」。我說,「你是告訴我,我是一年以來,到這裡談生意的唯一女性?」他看著我,說,「對,或者說你是唯一要去廁所的女性」。

(笑聲)

因此問題在於,我們該如何解決這問題?我們怎樣改變女性領導者的數目?我們怎樣讓它有所改觀?我想說的是,我談到把女性留在職場中,因為我認為這就是解決辦法。對於高收入的人群,或是最終做到高層的人—財富500強的CEO,或者其他行業的佼佼者。問題在於,我相信,是女性退出了。現在人們對這些談論很多,他們談論的多是彈性工時和師徒制度,以及公司對女性的培訓程式。這些都不是我要講的,雖然這也很重要。今天,我想把重點放在,作為個體,我們能做什麼?我們要告訴自己什麼訊息?我們要告訴女同事和女下屬什麼訊息?我們要告訴女兒什麼訊息?

首先,我想要說明,這場演講沒有任何定論。我沒有正確答案,連我自己都沒有。週一我離開舊金山,我的居所,我要趕飛機來參加此次會議。我女兒,三歲。當我把她送到托兒所,她抱著我的腿,哭著說,「媽媽,不要上飛機」之類的話。這很難,有時候我感覺內疚。我知道沒有哪個女性,不論是在家裡還是在職場,沒有過這種感受。因此我沒有說留在職場中,對所有人都是正確的。

我今天要說的是,如果你想要留在職場中,你要告訴自己什麼訊息。我認為有三點:一,加入談論;二,找個真正的人生伴侶;三,不要過早離開。第一,加入談論。就在幾星期前,在Facebook,我們邀了一個高層政府官員,他在來自矽谷的高級主管們的陪同下入場,所有人都加入談論。與他一同到來的有兩名女性,在其部門中也是高層,我對她們說,「坐到桌旁,來,加入談論」。她們卻坐到會議室一角。當我在大學最後一年,我上了一門課,《歐洲思想史》。你們不都喜歡這類大學課程嗎?我希望現在我會喜歡。我跟室友Carrie一起上課,她當時是個有才華的文學學生,現在是個有才華的文學學者。我弟弟,很聰明,是個愛打水球的醫科學生,上二年級。

我們三個一起上課,Carrie讀了所有的希臘語和拉丁語的原版書,每節課都到。我讀了所有英文書,大部分課都到。我弟弟比較忙,12本書中唯讀了一本,只去上了幾節課。在臨考幾天前,跑到我們宿舍臨時抱佛腳。我們三個一起去考試。我們坐下來,坐了大約三個鐘頭,還有藍色的小筆記本,就是那個年代。我們走出考場,彼此對視並問到,「你考的怎麼樣?」Carrie說,「天啊!我覺得自己在黑格爾辯證法上沒有答出要點」。我說,「天啊!我希望自己能把洛克的財產理論和下面的哲學家聯繫起來」。而我弟弟說,「我會拿全班最高分」。「你拿全班最高分?可你什麼都不懂!」

這件事情,與前面的資料顯示了同一問題,女性天生容易低估自己的能力。如果做一個實驗,讓男性和女性回答一些很客觀的問題,如GPA,男性會估計的偏高,而女性會估計的偏低。女性在職場中不為自己爭取。過去兩年的一項,針對畢業生進入職場的研究,表明有57%的男生,或者說,男人,為自己的第一份工資協商。而只有7%的女性這麼做。最重要的是,男性將成功歸功於自己,而女性將成功歸功於其他的外部因素。如果問男性,為什麼你做的這麼好?他們會說,「因為我很強,顯而易見,為什麼還要問呢?」如果問女性,你為什麼做的這麼好?她們會說,因為他人的幫助,因為她們幸運,因為她們努力。這有什麼關係呢?這關係很大。因為坐在角落而不是桌邊的人,不會得到好的辦公室。不認為自己應得的人,或者不懂得自己成功的人,也不會得到升遷。

我希望答案能很簡單,我希望我能去告訴所有共事的年輕女性,這些優秀的女性,「相信自己,為自己爭取,享受應得的成功」。我希望可以把這告訴我女兒。但不是這麼簡單,因為資料顯示了最重要的一點,就是成功與受人接受的程度,在男性身上呈正比關係,而對女性卻呈反比。大家都點頭了,因為我們都知道這是事實。

一個不錯的研究也很好的顯示了這一點。有個著名的哈佛商學院研究,關於一位女性,名為Heidi Roizen。她是矽谷的一家公司的經營者,她通過自己的社會關係,成為了一位成功的風險資本家。在2002年,距今不算太久,一位教授,當時任教於哥倫比亞大學,使用Heidi Roizen作為案例。然後他把這個案例,印成兩個版本,分給兩組學生。他僅改動了一個字,把Heidi改為Howard,但這一改動造成很大的區別。他對學生進行調查,好消息是所有學生,不論男女,認為Heidi和Howard都很有能力,這一點不錯。但壞消息是,人們都喜歡Howard。他這人不錯,你想為他工作,你願意陪他釣一天魚。至於Heidi?就不那麼確定了。她有點自利,有點自私,你不確定是否想要為她工作。這就是難題所在。我們要告訴女兒和同事們,我們要告訴自己,相信自己做的很好,去爭取升職,去加入談論。而我們不得不為此做出一些犧牲,而我們的兄弟就不必。

最悲哀的一點是,我們很難記住這一點。我要講一件令我十分尷尬的事情,但我覺得這很重要。不久前我在Facebook約一百名員工做過一場演講。幾小時後,一位在那工作的年輕女性,坐在我的小桌子之外,她想要跟我談談。我說,好。她坐下來,我們開始交談。她說,「我今天知道了一點,我知道了我必須一直舉著手」。我說,「這是什麼意思呢?」她說,「你做這場演講,你說你要再回答兩個問題,我和其他人一樣舉起手。你準備再回答了兩個問題,我放下手,我注意到其他女性也都把手放了下來。於是你又回答了兩個問題,只回答男性的問題」。我心裡想,哇,如果就算我,顯然我是關注這個問題的,在做這場演講。在這場演講中,我都注意不到,男性舉手了,女性也舉手了。那我們作為,公司和組織的管理者,給予男性機會多於女性的做法,能有多少改觀呢?我們該讓女性加入談論。

(掌聲)

第二點,找個真正的人生伴侶。我相信我們在職場中取得的進步,比在家庭中要多。資料清晰的說明了這點。如果妻子和丈夫都有全職工作,有一個孩子,妻子做的家務活是丈夫的兩倍,而妻子照顧孩子的時間是丈夫的三倍。所以說女性有三份工作,或者兩份,男性只有一份。你認為當需要有人照顧家裡的時候,誰更容易放棄工作?這點的原因很複雜,我沒有時間深入去講。而且我不認為週日看足球賽,或者普遍的惰性就是原因,我認為原因更為複雜。我認為當今社會,相對于女孩,我們給男孩更多的壓力要成功。我認識居家男人,在家工作來支持妻子的事業,這很難。當我去做親子遊戲,看到那個父親在那裡,我發現其他的母親都不跟他玩,這就是問題。因為我們必須讓這份工作,因為這是世上最難的工作,居家工作,對兩性來說都很重要。如果我們想要平等,想把女性留在工作中。(掌聲)研究顯示收入均等的家庭,同時責任也均等,離婚率也是其他的一半。如果這一點不足以激勵在座的各位,他們也更能...要怎麼在講臺上說呢?也更能享受魚水之歡。

(歡呼聲)

第三點,不要過早離開。我想這是個深刻的諷刺,針對女性的一系列行為。我經常看到,客觀上留在職場中,實際上最終導致離職。下面是事情的經過,我們都很忙,所有人都很忙,女性也很忙。她開始考慮要個孩子。當她開始這麼考慮以後,她就會考慮給孩子留出空間。「我該怎麼將這與其他事情平衡呢?」確切說就是那一刻起,她不再舉手了,不再尋求升職機遇,不再接受新的專案,不再說「我,我來做這個」。她開始退縮了。問題在於,就說她懷孕的那一天,那一天起。9個月的妊娠期,3個月的產假,6個月的緊張生活,2年瞬間即逝。更經常的,在我看來,女性大多過早的考慮這個。當她們訂婚,當她們結婚,當她們開始考慮要個孩子,其實還有很長時間。一位女性來找我談這個,我看了看她,她看上去比較年輕。我說,「那麼,你跟你丈夫開始考慮要個孩子了嗎?」她說,「不,我還沒結婚」。她甚至連男朋友都沒有。我說,「你考慮這個,有點為時過早」。

但問題是,當你默默退縮之後,發生了什麼?每個人都有這種經歷。我來告訴你,當你有了孩子,你的工作最好退讓一下,因為把孩子扔在家裡很難。你的工作要有挑戰性,要有報酬,你要覺得自己在發光發熱。如果2年前你沒有升職,而是坐在你旁邊的人升了。如果3年前,你不再尋求新的機遇,你現在會厭倦,因為你應該把腳踩在油門上。不要過早離開,繼續工作,把腳踩在油門上,直到你需要離開的那一天,因為要照顧孩子,之後再做決定。不要過早做決定,特別是在無意識下做出的決定。

我這一代,很悲哀,已經無法改變女性領導者的數目,不會有太大變動。我們達不到人口的50%,在我這一代,女性達不到各行各業領導者的50%。但我希望後代可以。我認為這樣的世界,國家和企業的一半由女性領導,會變得更美好。不僅是因為人們就會知道女廁所在哪,雖然這也很有幫助,我認為世界會變得更美好。我有兩個孩子,一個5歲的兒子,一個2歲的女兒。我希望我兒子可以有所選擇,無論是全力工作,還是全力持家。我想讓我女兒也可以有所選擇,不只成功,而且因她的成就受人接受。

謝謝。

(掌聲)

以下為系統擷取之英文原文

About this talk

Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg looks at why a smaller percentage of women than men reach the top of their professions -- and offers 3 powerful pieces of advice to women aiming for the C-suite.

About Sheryl Sandberg

As the COO at the helm of Facebook, Sheryl Sandberg juggles the tasks of monetizing the world’s largest social networking site while keeping its users happy and engaged. Full bio and more links

Transcript

So for any of us in this room today, let's start out by admitting we're lucky. We don't live in the world our mothers lived in, our grandmothers lived in, where career choices for women were so limited. And if you're in this room today, most of us grew up in a world where we had basic civil rights. And amazingly, we still live in a world where some women don't have them. But all that aside, we still have a problem, and it's a real problem. And the problem is this: women are not making it to the top of any profession anywhere in the world. The numbers tell the story quite clearly. 190 heads of state -- nine are women. Of all the people in parliament in the world, 13 percent are women. In the corporate sector, women at the top, C-level jobs, board seats -- tops out at 15, 16 percent. The numbers have not moved since 2002 and are going in the wrong direction. And even in the non-profit world, a world we sometimes think of as being led by more women, women at the top: 20 percent.

We also have another problem, which is that women face harder choices between professional success and personal fulfillment. A recent study in the U.S. showed that, of married senior managers, two-thirds of the married men had children and only one-third of the married women had children. A couple of years ago, I was in New York, and I was pitching a deal, and I was in one of those fancy New York private equity offices you can picture. And I'm in the meeting -- it's about a three-hour meeting -- and two hours in, there kind of needs to be that bio break, and everyone stands up, and the partner running the meeting starts looking really embarrassed. And I realized he doesn't know where the women's room is in his office. So I start looking around for moving boxes, figuring they just moved in, but I don't see any. And so I said, "Did you just move into this office?" And he said, "No, we've been here about a year." And I said, "Are you telling me that I am the only woman to have pitched a deal in this office in a year?" And he looked at me, and he said, "Yeah. Or maybe you're the only one who had to go to the bathroom."

(Laughter)

So the question is, how are we going to fix this? How do we change these numbers at the top? How do we make this different? I want to start out by saying, I talk about this -- about keeping women in the workforce -- because I really think that's the answer. In the high-income part of our workforce, in the people who end up at the top -- Fortune 500 CEO jobs, or the equivalent in other industries -- the problem, I am convinced, is that women are dropping out. Now people talk about this a lot, and they talk about things like flex time and mentoring and programs companies should have to train women. I want to talk about none of that today -- even though that's all really important. Today I want to focus on what we can do as individuals. What are the messages we need to tell ourselves? What are the messages we tell the women that work with and for us? What are the messages we tell our daughters?

Now at the outset, I want to be very clear that this speech comes with no judgments. I don't have the right answer; I don't even have it for myself. I left San Francisco, where I live, on Monday, and I was getting on the plane for this conference. And my daughter, who's three, when I dropped her off at preschool, did that whole hugging the leg, crying, "Mommy, don't get on the plane," thing. This is hard. I feel guilty sometimes. I know no women, whether they're at home, or whether they're in the workforce, that don't feel that sometimes. So I'm not saying that staying in the workforce is the right thing for everyone.

My talk today is about what the messages are if you do want to stay in the workforce. And I think there are three. One, sit at the table. Two, make your partner a real partner. And three -- don't leave before you leave. Number one: sit at the table. Just a couple weeks ago at Facebook, we hosted a very senior government official, and he came in to meet with senior execs from around Silicon Valley. And everyone kind of sat at the table. And then he had these two women who were traveling with him who were pretty senior in his department. And I kind of said to them, "Sit at the table. Come on, sit at the table." And they sat on the side of the room. When I was in college my senior year, I took a course called European Intellectual History. Don't you love that kind of thing from college. I wish I could do that now. And I took it with my roommate, Carrie, who was then a brilliant literary student -- and went on to be a brilliant literary scholar -- and my brother -- smart guy, but a water polo playing pre-med, who was a sophomore.

The three of us take this class together. And then Carrie reads all the books in the original Greek and Latin -- goes to all the lectures -- I read all the books in English and go to most of the lectures. My brother is kind of busy; he reads one book of 12 and goes to a couple of lectures, marches himself up to our room a couple days before the exam to get himself tutored. The three of us go to the exam together, and we sit down. And we sit there for three hours -- and our little blue notebooks -- yes, I'm that old. And we walk out, and we look at each other, and we say, "How did you do?" And Carrie says, "Boy, I feel like I didn't really draw out the main point on the Hegelian dialectic." And I say, "God, I really wish I had really connected John Locke's theory of property with the philosophers that follow." And my brother says, "I got the top grade in the class." "You got the top grade in the class? You don't know anything."

The problem with these stories is that they show what the data shows: women systematically underestimate their own abilities. If you test men and women, and you ask them questions on totally objective criteria like GPA's, men get it wrong slightly high, and women get it wrong slightly low. Women do not negotiate for themselves in the workforce. A study in the last two years of people entering the workforce out of college showed that 57 percent of boys entering -- or men, I guess -- are negotiating their first salary, and only seven percent of women. And most importantly, men attribute their success to themselves, and women attribute it to other external factors. If you ask men why they did a good job, they'll say, "I'm awesome. Obviously. Why are you even asking?" If you ask women why they did a good job, what they'll say is someone helped them, they got lucky, they worked really hard. Why does this matter? Boy, it matters a lot because no one gets to the corner office by sitting on the side, not at the table. And no one gets the promotion if they don't think they deserve their success, or they don't even understand their own success.

I wish the answer were easy. I wish I could just go tell all the young women I work with, all these fabulous women, "Believe in yourself and negotiate for yourself. Own your own success." I wish I could tell that to my daughter. But it's not that simple. Because what the data shows, above all else, is one thing -- which is that success and likability are positively correlated for men and negatively correlated for women. And everyone's nodding, because we all know this to be true.

There's a really good study that shows this really well. There's a famous Harvard Business School study on a woman named Heidi Roizen. And she's an operator in a company in Silicon Valley, and she uses her contacts to become a very successful venture capitalist. In 2002 -- not so long ago -- a professor who was then at Columbia University took that case and made it Howard Roizen. And he gave case out -- both of them -- to two groups of students. He changed exactly one word: Heidi to Howard. But that one word made a really big difference. He then surveyed the students. And the good news was the students, both men and women, thought Heidi and Howard were equally competent, and that's good. The bad news was that everyone liked Howard. He's a great guy, you want to work for him, you want to spend the day fishing with him. But Heidi? Not so sure. She's a little out for herself. She's a little political. You're not sure you'd want to work for her. This is the complication. We have to tell our daughters and our colleagues, we have to tell ourselves to believe we got the A, to reach for the promotion, to sit at the table. And we have to do it in a world where, for them, there are sacrifices they will make for that, even though for their brothers, there are not.

The saddest thing about all of this is that it's really hard to remember this. And I'm about to tell a story which is truly embarrassing for me, but I think important. I gave this talk at Facebook not so long ago to about a hundred employees. And a couple hours later, there was a young woman who works there sitting outside my little desk, and she wanted to talk to me. I said, okay, and she sat down, and we talked. And she said, "I learned something today. I learned that I need to keep my hand up." I said, "What do you mean?" She said, "Well, you're giving this talk, and you said you were going to take two more questions. And I had my hand up with lots of other people, and you took two more questions. And I put my hand down, and I noticed all the women put their hand down, and then you took more questions, only from the men." And I thought to myself, wow, if it's me -- who cares about this, obviously -- giving this talk -- and during this talk, I can't even notice that the men's hands are still raised, and the women's hands are still raised, how good are we as managers of our companies and our organizations at seeing that the men are reaching for opportunities more than women? We've got to get women to sit at the table.

(Applause)

Message number two: make your partner a real partner. I've become convinced that we've made more progress in the workforce than we have in the home. The data shows this very clearly. If a woman and a man work full-time and have a child, the woman does twice the amount of housework the man does, and the woman does three times the amount of child care the man does. So she's got three jobs or two jobs, and he's got one. Who do you think drops out when someone needs to be home more? The causes of this are really complicated, and I don't have time to go into them. And I don't think Sunday football watching and general laziness is the cause.

I think the cause is more complicated. I think, as a society, we put more pressure on our boys to succeed that we do on our girls. I know men that stay home and work in the home to support wives with careers And it's hard. When I go to the Mommy-and-Me stuff and I see the father there, I notice that the other mommies don't play with him. And that's a problem, because we have to make it as important a job -- because it's the hardest job in the world -- to work inside the home for people of both genders if we're going to even things out and let women stay in the workforce. (Applause) Studies show that households with equal earning and equal responsibility also have half the divorce rate. And if that wasn't good enough motivation for everyone out there, they also have more -- how shall I say this on this stage? -- they know each other more in the biblical sense as well.

(Cheers)

Message number three: don't leave before you leave. I think there's a really deep irony to the fact that actions women are taking -- and I see this all the time -- with the objective of staying in the workforce, actually lead to their eventually leaving. Here's what happens: We're all busy; everyone's busy; a woman's busy. And she starts thinking about having a child. And from the moment she starts thinking about having a child, she starts thinking about making room for that child. "How am I going to fit this into everything else I'm doing?" And literally from that moment, she doesn't raise her hand anymore, she doesn't look for a promotion, she doesn't take on the new project, she doesn't say, "Me. I want to do that." She starts leaning back. The problem is that -- let's say she got pregnant that day, that day -- nine months of pregnancy, three months of maternity leave, six months to catch your breath -- fast-forward two years, more often -- and as I've seen it -- women start thinking about this way earlier -- when they get engaged, when they get married, when they start thinking about trying to have a child, which can take a long time. One woman came to see me about this, and I kind of looked at her -- she looked a little young. And I said, "So are you and your husband thinking about having a baby?" And she said, "Oh no, I'm not married." She didn't even have a boyfriend. I said, "You're thinking about this just way too early."

But the point is that what happens once you start kind of quietly leaning back? Everyone who's been through this -- and I'm here to tell you, once you have a child at home, your job better be really good to go back, because it's hard to leave that kid at home -- your job needs to be challenging. It needs to be rewarding. You need to feel like you're making a difference. And if two years ago you didn't take a promotion and some guy next to you did, if three years ago you stopped looking for new opportunities, you're going to be bored because you should have kept your foot on the gas pedal. Don't leave before you leave. Stay in. Keep your foot on the gas pedal, until the very day you need to leave to take a break for a child -- and then make your decisions. Don't make decisions too far in advance, particularly ones you're not even conscious you're making.

My generation really, sadly, is not going to change the numbers at the top. They're just not moving. We are not going to get to where 50 percent of the population -- in my generation, there will not be 50 percent of people at the top of any industry. But I'm hopeful that future generations can. I think a world that was run where half of our countries and half of our companies were run by women, would be a better world. And it's not just because people would know where the women's bathroom are, even though that would be very helpful. I think it would be a better world. I have two children. I have a five year-old son and a three year-old daughter. I want my son to have a choice to contribute fully in the workforce or at home. And I want my daughter to have the choice to not just succeed, but to be liked for her accomplishments.

Thank you.

(Applause)
 


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